OK, SHE SAID IT! - Women Bring on Sexual Assault by Their Dress / Conduct...

[Teallaura]

Perhaps Burqas are not a such bad idea.

Yep. All men should be required to wear them. Even in stilletoes, we girls should be able to outrun them then.

[seer]

Yep. All men should be required to wear them. Even in stilletoes, we girls should be able to outrun them then.

No, you guys really need to stop wearing those yoga pants in public! It is hard enough trying to be good!

[Teallaura]

No, you guys really need to stop wearing those yoga pants in public! It is hard enough trying to be good!

How the heck? Most women look awful in those things. They belong on the return rack of fashion history along with bellbottoms.

[Leonhard]

No, you guys really need to stop wearing those yoga pants in public! It is hard enough trying to be good!

And men should start to wear pink again, its such an aggressive color. Blue should be reserved for little girls.

[Leonhard]

I would far rather my daughters listen to Chrissie's advice than some pinko commie liberal who refuses to accept that there ARE some things for which we should take personal responsibility. There ARE some things women can do to mitigate risk - that's what Chrissie's comments are about, albeit worded a bit aggressively.

How does this square with your responses earlier that women are not responsible for being the actions of the rapist? You seem to want to say both that, A) Men who dress lewdly are asking for it, and partly to blame for the actions of the rapist. B) Raping someone is an act of freewill, so the guilt belongs to the aggressor.

I'm not sure your responses are entirely consistent.

On the subject as a whole, I don't think there is any evidence that lewdly dressed women are more likely to be raped than victorian dressed women. What is a probabillity factor is alcohol, and parties, and places, were large scale consumption of alcohol is expected.

[JardinPrayer]

I'll tell you what surprises me: We got to page 5 of this thread before a woman chimed in. Speaking only for myself, I've made similar mistakes in my distant past with similar results. Adrift suggested CH may be dealing with guilt. I'm not sure it's guilt. I feel much the same as she does, which is to say I think she's trying to express that she made choices that carried consequences. In my case, if I hadn't answered that ad, kept that date, done those drugs, and gone to that apartment, I would not have been so horribly abused back in 1988. I think Chrissy's word choice is a bit extreme, but her recognition that her choices contributed to her experience is what leads to personal growth, as it did for me. I want to kick myself for being so reckless (the title of her book), but that experience taught me a lot about myself, the world, and responsibility. I don't feel guilty, just stupid. Granted, the guy could have been a perfect gentleman, but I was still in a very precarious situation. And, perfect gentlemen don't offer you tons of mind-altering substances if their intentions are pure. At the end of the day, I'm the one who said, "Yes." He is as responsible for his choices as I am for mine.

[Cow Poke]

How does this square with your responses earlier that women are not responsible for being the actions of the rapist?

It's really quite simple -- it's not an either / or.

You seem to want to say both that, A) Men who dress lewdly are asking for it,

Um.... perhaps you think this is the Bruce Jenner thread?

and partly to blame for the actions of the rapist.

Absolutely not. The rapist is responsible for his own actions. AT THE SAME TIME, a prudent woman would understand that there are certain things than can increase or decrease her chances of being his victim.

B) Raping someone is an act of freewill, so the guilt belongs to the aggressor.

Which is why, if convicted, they go to prison.

I'm not sure your responses are entirely consistent.

Because you're trying to see this as an "either / or".

On the subject as a whole, I don't think there is any evidence that lewdly dressed women are more likely to be raped than victorian dressed women.

Wow

What is a probabillity factor is alcohol, and parties, and places, were large scale consumption of alcohol is expected.

So, a PRUDENT woman can decrease her chances of getting raped or assaulted by avoiding such places, yes? That's called "personal responsibility".

[Cow Poke]

I'll tell you what surprises me: We got to page 5 of this thread before a woman chimed in. Speaking only for myself, I've made similar mistakes in my distant past with similar results. Adrift suggested CH may be dealing with guilt. I'm not sure it's guilt. I feel much the same as she does, which is to say I think she's trying to express that she made choices that carried consequences. In my case, if I hadn't answered that ad, kept that date, done those drugs, and gone to that apartment, I would not have been so horribly abused back in 1988. I think Chrissy's word choice is a bit extreme, but her recognition that her choices contributed to her experience is what leads to personal growth, as it did for me. I want to kick myself for being so reckless (the title of her book), but that experience taught me a lot about myself, the world, and responsibility. I don't feel guilty, just stupid. Granted, the guy could have been a perfect gentleman, but I was still in a very precarious situation. And, perfect gentlemen don't offer you tons of mind-altering substances if their intentions are pure. At the end of the day, I'm the one who said, "Yes." He is as responsible for his choices as I am for mine.

I think men - particularly some of the ones who posted in this thread - are WAY more concerned about "looking sympathetic to women" than acknowledging the cold hard facts of life. That's part of the "PC" crap I was talking about.

Thanks for your contribution.

[Cow Poke]

Here's the deal.....

When somebody like Chrissie posts what she did, there are often two kinds of reactions....

A) Blast her for even THINKING that women are the blame --- even though that's not what she was saying at all
2) Accept the fact that women do - IN FACT - have some power over how vulnerable they are to rape or assault.

A) makes liberals feel better, but doesn't help women one iota.
2) is not politically correct, but may actually save the life of a woman, or keep her from being brutally assaulted.

[Sam]

Here's the deal.....

When somebody like Chrissie posts what she did, there are often two kinds of reactions....

A) Blast her for even THINKING that women are the blame --- even though that's not what she was saying at all
2) Accept the fact that women do - IN FACT - have some power over how vulnerable they are to rape or assault.

A) makes liberals feel better, but doesn't help women one iota.
2) is not politically correct, but may actually save the life of a woman, or keep her from being brutally assaulted.

No one argues with (2). And you've gone from saying that you disagree with Ms. Hynde and that her position is "extreme" to arguing that she's not really saying that it's women's fault for being assaulted, a position contradicted by the OP's (your) source article:



If there's some confusion here, it's (A) because you're criticizing "liberals" for arguing that women are not, in fact, to blame for an assault when most everyone on this board, including yourself, has agreed with that argument and (2) because you maintain that it's somehow not "politically correct" to talk about precautions that women can take to avoid assault when absolutely no one argues otherwise.

[Christianbookworm]

I've wondered why some people make it sound like you can never reduce the chance of becoming a crime victim. Specifically a victim of sexual violence. Though I have heard that you should never get drunk in a place you would not want to spend the night.

[Jesse]

I keep saying it, people. More women should be armed and not afraid to use what they have at their disposal. I am very pro "shoot a rapist in the face". I wonder if more of that happened, would these conversations change?

[JardinPrayer]

I keep saying it, people. More women should be armed and not afraid to use what they have at their disposal. I am very pro "shoot a rapist in the face". I wonder if more of that happened, would these conversations change?

I'm not so sure it does change the conversation in this case, except to raise the issue of drunk or drugged-up women wielding firearms. Make. Better. Choices.



(eta: I am not Liberal and I have a concealed carry permit, so don't start.)

[Cow Poke]

No one argues with (2). And you've gone from saying that you disagree with Ms. Hynde and that her position is "extreme" to arguing that she's not really saying that it's women's fault for being assaulted, a position contradicted by the OP's (your) source article:



If there's some confusion here, it's (A) because you're criticizing "liberals" for arguing that women are not, in fact, to blame for an assault when most everyone on this board, including yourself, has agreed with that argument and (2) because you maintain that it's somehow not "politically correct" to talk about precautions that women can take to avoid assault when absolutely no one argues otherwise.

No, Sam, it's not. You're doing that same buckethead "either / or" thing.

It is the fault of the rapist for the rape, but women CAN and SHOULD decrease their chance of being his victim.

[Jesse]

I'm not so sure it does change the conversation in this case, except to raise the issue of drunk or drugged-up women wielding firearms. Make. Better. Choices.



(eta: I am not Liberal and I have a concealed carry permit, so don't start.)

Understandable. I was thinking in terms of if more women were armed, would places that could potentially be seen as "problems" still be that way? I think that maybe once the word is out that the chances of a woman being armed is more likely, these kind of situations become less dangerous?