Parallel Alternate Multiverses, Oh My!

[shunyadragon]

I said I was commenting on the idea that the universe we are in is infinite and therefor their is an exact copy of eart out there IN THIS UNIVERSE

do you have a reading problem? Should I repeat myself again for you???

I do not believe the concept involves an exact copy out there IN THIS UNIVERSE. IF 'other worlds' exist, which I am skeptical, they would have a parallel universe. The theory proposes that that it is possible that a given universe may produce "clone" other universes. I believe that if other worlds exist in our universe they would be similar worlds not exact copies.

[Sparko]

I do not believe the concept involves an exact copy out there IN THIS UNIVERSE. IF 'other worlds' exist, which I am skeptical, they would have a parallel universe. The theory proposes that that it is possible that a given universe may produce "clone" other universes. I believe that if other worlds exist in our universe they would be similar worlds not exact copies.

This is what seer quoted:

Is there a copy of you reading this article? A person who is not you but who lives on
a planet called Earth, with misty mountains, fertile fields and
sprawling cities, in a solar system with eight other planets? The
life of this person has been identical to yours in every respect.
But perhaps he or she now decides to put down this article without
finishing it, while you read on.

The idea of such an alter ego seems strange and implausible,
but it looks as if we will just have to live with it, because it
is supported by astronomical observations. The simplest and
most popular cosmological model today predicts that you have
a twin in a galaxy about 10 to the 1028 meters from here.In infinite space, even the most
unlikely events must take place somewhere. There are infinitely
many other inhabited planets, including not just one but in-
finitely many that have people with the same appearance, name
and memories as you, who play out every possible permutation
of your life choices.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post237768

That is what I was arguing against. since this universe had a beginning it can't be infinite.

[shunyadragon]

This is what seer quoted:

Is there a copy of you reading this article? A person who is not you but who lives on
a planet called Earth, with misty mountains, fertile fields and
sprawling cities, in a solar system with eight other planets? The
life of this person has been identical to yours in every respect.
But perhaps he or she now decides to put down this article without
finishing it, while you read on.

The idea of such an alter ego seems strange and implausible,
but it looks as if we will just have to live with it, because it
is supported by astronomical observations. The simplest and
most popular cosmological model today predicts that you have
a twin in a galaxy about 10 to the 1028 meters from here.In infinite space, even the most
unlikely events must take place somewhere. There are infinitely
many other inhabited planets, including not just one but in-
finitely many that have people with the same appearance, name
and memories as you, who play out every possible permutation
of your life choices.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post237768

That is what I was arguing against. since this universe had a beginning it can't be infinite.

I do not consider a partial citing seer as remotely meaningful at all. The article seer cited was 'Parallel Universes.' by Max Tegmark

A complete reading shows the more obvious, Tegmark was not referring to just our universe.

Source: http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/PD...erse_sciam.pdf

One of the many implications of recent cosmological observations is that the concept of parallel universes is no mere metaphor. Space appears to be infinite in size. If so, then somewhere out there, everything that is possible becomes real, no matter how improbable it is. Beyond the range of our telescopes are other regions of space that are identical to ours. Those regions are a type of parallel universe. Scientists can even calculate how distant these universes are, on average. ! And that is fairly solid physics. When cosmologists consider theories that are less well established, they conclude that other universes can have entirely different properties and laws of physics. The presence of those universes would explain various strange aspects of our own. It could even answer fundamental questions about the nature of time and the comprehensibility of the physical world.

© Copyright Original Source

[oxmixmudd]

I do not consider a partial citing seer as remotely meaningful at all. The article seer cited was 'Parallel Universes.' by Max Tegmark

A complete reading shows the more obvious, Tegmark was not referring to just our universe.

Source: http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/PD...erse_sciam.pdf

One of the many implications of recent cosmological observations is that the concept of parallel universes is no mere metaphor. Space appears to be infinite in size. If so, then somewhere out there, everything that is possible becomes real, no matter how improbable it is. Beyond the range of our telescopes are other regions of space that are identical to ours. Those regions are a type of parallel universe. Scientists can even calculate how distant these universes are, on average. ! And that is fairly solid physics. When cosmologists consider theories that are less well established, they conclude that other universes can have entirely different properties and laws of physics. The presence of those universes would explain various strange aspects of our own. It could even answer fundamental questions about the nature of time and the comprehensibility of the physical world.

© Copyright Original Source

So, food for thought:

(1) How does one tell the difference between an infinite universe where precise duplicates of our own visible universe exist and a universe that simply folds back on itself?

(2) If the set of possible quantum variation is infinite over a finite subset of the universe, then how does one guarantee an exact duplicate MUST exist even given an infinite universe? i.e. consider the difference between Aleph NULL (the counting numbers/rationals) and the Aleph 1 (the reals). That is, guaranteed duplication tends to depend on the countability of the set of possible states in a given finite subset of space.

Jim

[shunyadragon]

So, food for thought:

(1) How does one tell the difference between an infinite universe [greater cosmos] where precise duplicates of our own visible universe exist and a universe that simply folds back on itself?

I believe the difference is that what is referred to is the 'greater cosmos' that contains parallel universes. A 'universe that folds back on itself (?)' would be a form of cyclic universe model if proposed not taking into consideration the greater cosmos.

(2) If the set of possible quantum variation is infinite over a finite subset of the universe, then how does one guarantee an exact duplicate MUST exist even given an infinite universe? i.e. consider the difference between Aleph NULL (the counting numbers/rationals) and the Aleph 1 (the reals). That is, guaranteed duplication tends to depend on the countability of the set of possible states in a given finite subset of space.

First the 'possibility of quantum variation is infinite' over a finite subset of the universe' statement to me is not clear. I do not belief that 'a finite subset of the universe' addresses the question of the 'greater multiverse or parallel universe greater cosmos' described in the article.

Your question needs more explanation.

.

[oxmixmudd]

I believe the difference is that what is referred to is the 'greater cosmos' that contains parallel universes. A 'universe that folds back on itself (?)' would be a form of cyclic universe model if proposed not taking into consideration the greater cosmos.

I'm not sure a folding of space time that creates a cycle in space necessarily requires a cycle in time ...

First the 'possibility of quantum variation is infinite' over a finite subset of the universe' statement to me is not clear. I do not belief that 'a finite subset of the universe' addresses the question of the 'greater multiverse or parallel universe greater cosmos' described in the article.

Your question needs more explanation.

.

It falls back on the 3 know levels of infinity. Specifically, if the universe is on some level quantized, then the set of states over a bounded region of space time are fixed because the number of possible configurations is itself countable. However, if on some level the universe/reality is itself continuous, then the set of possible states is not countable and the number of possible configurations over a bounded region of spacetime would then not be countable. In that condition, there would be no real repeatability that was possible. Each region that appears equal at some granularity of analysis would, if one could peer into that continuous region, reveal itself to in fact be different.

One way this difference could manifest is that the futures of the two regions could in fact diverge. That is, suppose that in two regions that had previously evolved identically to produce an exactly equal 'now', could in fact diverge. Consider that a particular molecule of a radiactive element in the two universes could in fact decay at different time. In one of our two equal universes that shift in decay time could result in a shift of evolution, or even a shift in the survivability of an individual that could be a driving force in the history of the two possible futures. If, in fact, the elements that drive radioactive decay timing are not in fact countably constrained then it would be possible for an infinite number of identitacal regions of space time to experience futures that are all in fact different. If these infinities are in fact uncountable, then there is no guarantee any one of those infinite possible futures would in fact match.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

I just had time to go back and read through my last response. I cobbled it together without a chance to proofread. And I humbly apologize for the grammatical and typographical errors. Embarrassing - and a known weakness. Too much in a hurry I guess.

Jim

[David Hayward]

I spent a couple of hours watching YouTube videos and reading Wikis on this topic over the last week. Obviously, I didn't make a serious study, based on these sources, though I did listen to a few string theorists describe the science that seems to support some potential for the parallel universes. Most of the science made my brain hurt, especially when they started talking about 11 dimensions and membranes, but I could grasp the general concept. But, I got lost when they applied this to predict multiple, parallel universes where each decision we make creates many possible results, each one its own universe. Actually, since the scientists start by defining the universe as that which we can currently observe, I had to make an adjustment to my thinking right off the bat. I managed to absorb enough of the science to have a few good chuckles at the paranormal enthusiasts mixing in the Mandela Effect and time travel into this mix, but I'd really love to hear what some of you have to say on this topic. No specific question here - just an invitation to dialogue.

[My emphases.]

Here's a contribution from that noted philosopher, the Dilbert Comic Strip Janitor: http://dilbert.com/strip/1994-01-02

[Sparko]

[My emphases.]

Here's a contribution from that noted philosopher, the Dilbert Comic Strip Janitor: http://dilbert.com/strip/1994-01-02

I have invented the parallelotron - a device that will let you travel at will between parallel universes that are exact duplicates of this one. I am selling this device for only $500 each so please order yours today!

[klaus54]

"Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once." - Unknown

[klaus54]

I have invented the parallelotron - a device that will let you travel at will between parallel universes that are exact duplicates of this one. I am selling this device for only $500 each so please order yours today!

How many easy payments? Shipping cost?

And I'm sure you're using a P.O. box in the Maldives.

[Sparko]

How many easy payments? Shipping cost?

And I'm sure you're using a P.O. box in the Maldives.

I am doing it through paypal. Just send your payment to [email protected]

[JardinPrayer]

I presume it's bigger on the inside, yes?

[Sparko]

I presume it's bigger on the inside, yes?

If you pay for the luxury expansion option....


blindfold-critique-joshua-david-lynch.jpg

[JardinPrayer]

This thread has transitioned from a serious discussion universe to a spam universe.