The vast majority is going to HELL

[myth buster]

Let's see if I got this straight-

"God's" "chosen people," Jews, are all going to HELL because they are sinners who have rejected Jesus as their Messiah and savior.

Anyone who has not been exposed to the "Word" cannot be held accountable and will not go to HELL. Thus, primitive tribes in Borneo who have not been exposed to Jesus will not be held accountable for their sins. So what happens to those people after they die? Do they get to go to Heaven regardless of how sinful they were?

Conversely, a Muslim who grew up in the Islamic faith and naturally clings to this faith he grew up with will go to HELL if he studies Christianity and learns about Jesus only to reject him as a personal savior. So do you Christians really believe everyone who is a member of the world's fastest growing religion who has heard the "Good News" and rejects it will go to HELL?

[neocon_voter]

[QUOTE=myth buster]Let's see if I got this straight-

"God's" "chosen people," Jews, are all going to HELL because they are sinners who have rejected Jesus as their Messiah and savior.

No; you got it wrong right off the bat.
Not ALL Jews are going to hell.

http://www.menorah.org/

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/getsaved

http://www.olivetreeministry.org/

Neocon_Voter

[Carpedm9587]

Let's see if I got this straight-

"God's" "chosen people," Jews, are all going to HELL because they are sinners who have rejected Jesus as their Messiah and savior.

Anyone who has not been exposed to the "Word" cannot be held accountable and will not go to HELL. Thus, primitive tribes in Borneo who have not been exposed to Jesus will not be held accountable for their sins. So what happens to those people after they die? Do they get to go to Heaven regardless of how sinful they were?

Conversely, a Muslim who grew up in the Islamic faith and naturally clings to this faith he grew up with will go to HELL if he studies Christianity and learns about Jesus only to reject him as a personal savior. So do you Christians really believe everyone who is a member of the world's fastest growing religion who has heard the "Good News" and rejects it will go to HELL?

No one's going to hell, MB. It's a mythological concept. Not a real place or real condition.

Well - except for when my french toast come out all burned. Now THAT's hell!

Michel

[lilpixieofterror]

Let's see if I got this straight-

You haven't got anything straight yet, we'll see how well you do here.

"God's" "chosen people," Jews, are all going to HELL because they are sinners who have rejected Jesus as their Messiah and savior.

For starters, there are a number of Jews who do accept Jesus as the Messiah, so you are wrong about that. Second, EVERYONE will be judged, you, me, and Jews. Thrid, God isn't done with the Jews yet.

Anyone who has not been exposed to the "Word" cannot be held accountable and will not go to HELL.

There are several ideas about that. Some say that Jesus is the truth, the way, and the light, but you are judged according to how much 'truth' you are exposed to. Other say it doesn't matter how much 'truth' you were exposed to, you'll go to hell if you don't believe in the Son.

Thus, primitive tribes in Borneo who have not been exposed to Jesus will not be held accountable for their sins.

No, ALL will be judged.

So what happens to those people after they die?

Haven't died, when I do... I'll call and tell you.

Do they get to go to Heaven regardless of how sinful they were?

No, it depends on how they were in life and how honnest they were in searching for the truth.

Conversely, a Muslim who grew up in the Islamic faith and naturally clings to this faith he grew up with will go to HELL if he studies Christianity and learns about Jesus only to reject him as a personal savior.

Why would he? That's God's judgement, not mine. Do you see yourself as sinful? If so, you might have something to worry about. FYI... there ARE Muslims who do become Christians and vise versa. You are allowed to convert to other faiths.

So do you Christians really believe everyone who is a member of the world's fastest growing religion who has heard the "Good News" and rejects it will go to HELL?

Depends on the Christian you are refering to. I don't know who is going to hell. That's not my decision. Are you afraid of hell? If so, I guess you have something to worry about, if not, than what do you have to fear? It's only a 'myth' right?

Crystal

FYI you did a bit better here. I sure hope you are going to improve from the nonsense you posted with the 'long hair' post.

[Tladatsi]

Yes, Carpe Dem9587 has hit it on the head.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that anyone goes to hell when they die. Hell being the fiery abode of the devil who punishes sinners for all eternity.

In the Bible, when people die, it says their souls will sleep in Sheol. The good and the bad share this same fate. There is no burning souls (how do souls burn?) in sulfurous pits below or eternal harping up among the clouds.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ad.php?t=72773

No one's going to hell, MB. It's a mythological concept. Not a real place or real condition.

Well - except for when my french toast come out all burned. Now THAT's hell!

Michel

[sandlewood]

There are several ideas about that. Some say that Jesus is the truth, the way, and the light, but you are judged according to how much 'truth' you are exposed to. Other say it doesn't matter how much 'truth' you were exposed to, you'll go to hell if you don't believe in the Son.

So then you're saying that know one knows for sure. It might be better not to spread Christianity because people who never hear of it will surely go to heaven while those who hear of it may or may not.

No, it depends on how they were in life and how honnest they were in searching for the truth.

So the criteria for getting into heaven is not belief that Jesus and God exist and that Jesus is the savior? I don't believe any gods exist, but I am honestly searching for the truth (the truth of reality).

Why would he? That's God's judgement, not mine.

So then you don't know what gets you into heaven? It is God's choice at the time you die and we don't know what he will choose or why?

How would you feel if after you die, God sent you to Hell even though you thought you were doing everything you were supposed to to get into Heaven? Would that seem unfair? Unless we know what the criteria are, it's likely that some people will be sent to Hell because they just didn't know what was expected of them.

Even though Christians disagree on what gets you into Heaven, or they don't know what gets you into Heaven, I don't think I ever met one who didn't believe he would get there.

FYI... there ARE Muslims who do become Christians and vise versa. You are allowed to convert to other faiths.

Well whether you are allowed or not I'm not so sure. I seem to remember some commandment about that. But what seems to matter is what religion you are at the moment you die, right? You can switch religions all you want while you are alive and it doesn't matter. Then at the moment you die, God makes a decision about whether you should go to Heaven or Hell. Then nothing you do after that makes any difference. You can change your mind, repent, and apologize all you want and you are never getting out of Hell once you are there, true?

Doesn't it seem odd to you that this decision is supposedly made only at the instant you die, and you can't change your opinion later? I'd be glad to believe in the Christian god if I can come to that decision one hour after I'm dead. Just let me see for myself. What's wrong with that? But the rules of Christianity don't allow that. For some reason, the Heaven-or-Hell decision seems to be made at that instant you die but before you are conscious after death when you can change you mind.

[Puddleglum]

Actually, isn't Christianity the fastest growing religion?

[Carpedm9587]

Actually, isn't Christianity the fastest growing religion?

Somehow I doubt it. It's been around too long to maintain that kind of growth curve. But do you have sources for thinking that is true? Maybe in some places?

Michel

[lilpixieofterror]

So then you're saying that know one knows for sure.

Only you and God know your heart. I can not judge what I can not know.

It might be better not to spread Christianity because people who never hear of it will surely go to heaven while those who hear of it may or may not.

I don't know who is going to heaven or hell expect myself. We are not to do the things that are reserved for God. One of those thing is to play 'judgement day'. I don't know anyone's heart or fate outside my own (even my own is covered in mystery). Besides, there are many things about biology we don't know, does that mean we shouldn't teach it because we don't fully understand it?

So the criteria for getting into heaven is not belief that Jesus and God exist and that Jesus is the savior?

That's part of it. I was refering to how much 'truth' you are trusted with. When I read the Bible, God seems to be intrested in those who search. Remember the parable of the lost sheep, lost coin, or the lost son? 'He was lost, now is found' the main body of the ministry is in those few paragraphs. Jesus did not come to save those who know God, but to find those who are lost.

I don't believe any gods exist, but I am honestly searching for the truth (the truth of reality).

Why don't you believe any God's exist?

1. You have examed the facts and came to that conclusion.
2. You have a supernatural bias that prevents you from comming to that conclusion.
3. You simpy refuse to believe what you do now, matters latter.
4. Your parents were atheist, so you are.

Did I get close or is there something else?

So then you don't know what gets you into heaven?

Sure I do. That wasn't at all what I was talking about, stop trying to warp things to fit what you want. I only know my own heart, not everyone elses.

It is God's choice at the time you die and we don't know what he will choose or why?

I only know for myself, not anyone else (just as I said or implied before). Nice try, but not going to work.

How would you feel if after you die, God sent you to Hell even though you thought you were doing everything you were supposed to to get into Heaven?

If I'm so childish not to accept responsibility for what I do, why on earth should I go to heaven? Now, I know what you'll say next, 'Why do you let Jesus accept your responsibilty?' The answer is simple, because Jesus wants to. Remember what John said, 'God is love'. To know Jesus and to walk with the Lord is to feel and know that love. Heaven or hell matter little to me, it's the here and now that matters most.

Would that seem unfair?

Why would it be unfair, it was my actions, right?

Unless we know what the criteria are, it's likely that some people will be sent to Hell because they just didn't know what was expected of them.

The criteria is listed in the Bible, pretty easy to know. Again, nice try tring to warp everything I say, but it's not going to work.

Even though Christians disagree on what gets you into Heaven, or they don't know what gets you into Heaven, I don't think I ever met one who didn't believe he would get there.

Because of what Jesus said. I know where I'm going, once again I was refering to other people. Stop trying to warp what I'm saying.

Well whether you are allowed or not I'm not so sure. I seem to remember some commandment about that.

That commandment is...

But what seems to matter is what religion you are at the moment you die, right?

Nope. Remember what Jesus said, 'Many will come to me and say, 'Lord didn't we do great miricles in your name?' And I will plainly tell them, 'Away from me evildoers! For you never knew me.'

You can switch religions all you want while you are alive and it doesn't matter. Then at the moment you die, God makes a decision about whether you should go to Heaven or Hell.

You're an adult right? Are you unable to accept the consequences of your actions?

Then nothing you do after that makes any difference.

As my mom used to tell me, "You made your bed, now sleep in it."

You can change your mind, repent, and apologize all you want and you are never getting out of Hell once you are there, true?

Why do you have a problem with that? You made all of your decisions while on earth on your own right? Did God tell you to lie to your parents? To steal money from your friends? To cheat on your wife? Or to do any other sins you do while on earth? You made the decision right? Why do you have a problem not taking responsibility for your own actions?

Doesn't it seem odd to you that this decision is supposedly made only at the instant you die, and you can't change your opinion later?

No, you make decision everyday that can't be changed. Why would it seem odd?

I'd be glad to believe in the Christian god if I can come to that decision one hour after I'm dead.

So you want to be allowed to live your life as sinful as you want without any strings attached? You send yourself to heaven or hell everyday by your decisions you make in the here and now. Remember, God is not a God of the dead, but of the living.

Just let me see for myself.

As Jesus said to Thomas, 'You believe because you see, but blessed are those that don't see, but believe.'

What's wrong with that?

Because you made your bed already, why can't you sleep in it?

But the rules of Christianity don't allow that.

Because reality does not work that way. For example, if a husband cheats on his wife, can he go back and change that? Nope, no matter how much guilt or shame he feels, that event will never change. The amazing thing is... God sent his son to erase that guilt and shame. Although that event will never disappear, the pain can. As one song puts in, "Your sins are forgotten, their on the ocean floor." The gift is there, you just need to go for it.

For some reason, the Heaven-or-Hell decision seems to be made at that instant you die but before you are conscious after death when you can change you mind.

Actually, the heaven or hell decision is made in the here and now. Every decision you make goes into your judgement. There is a way out of that judgement... but will you accept it or just kick it aside?

Crystal

[myth buster]

No; you got it wrong right off the bat.
Not ALL Jews are going to hell.

http://www.menorah.org/

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/getsaved

http://www.olivetreeministry.org/

Neocon_Voter

Thanks for pointing out my bad. But actually, I knew some Jews were in fact Christians. I was making a general statement. BTW - "neo-con" is a dirty word. I can only assume you love war and care nothing about upholding the Constitution.

[TheAnalogman]

Here's a thought for you guys/gals:
Do you like these following passages, or not?
Please also read Matthew 6 and 7 which follow these texts.

Matthew 5, New International Version
The Beatitudes
1Now when he saw the Crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them saying:
3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Salt and Light

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder

21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Adultery

27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery. 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce

31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths
33"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

An Eye for an Eye

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Do you like these teachings, or not? (Don't forget Chapters 6 and 7, as well)
There is your answer.

[myth buster]

Somehow I doubt it. It's been around too long to maintain that kind of growth curve. But do you have sources for thinking that is true? Maybe in some places?

Michel

Once again, I'm caught without the means to back up my statement. I read the newspaper and magazines, so I often learn things that I can't readily show to be true by bringing up something from the internet. But I'm quite sure that, worldwide, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

Anyone who has not been exposed to the "Word" cannot be held accountable and will not go to HELL. Thus, primitive tribes in Borneo who have not been exposed to Jesus will not be held accountable for their sins. So what happens to those people after they die? Do they get to go to Heaven regardless of how sinful they were?

Those who've never heard the word(or more precisely havent the word sufficently) can still be saved by sincerely seeking God the best way they know how

So do you Christians really believe everyone who is a member of the world's fastest growing religion who has heard the "Good News" and rejects it will go to HELL?

Yes, but I think you overestimate how much people(especially those in the far east) actually have heard of Christianity.

I remember talking with a friend of mine who worked as a missionary in Japan. She said it was amazing how many people there had never heard of Jesus. Or had heard of him but couldnt tell her the first thing about him.

I imagine the problem is just bad in most non-western parts of the world. In fact places like the Middle East probably have it far worse, since people are forced to be Islamic, following another religion(especially Christianity) can lead to death.

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

FYI you did a bit better here. I sure hope you are going to improve from the nonsense you posted with the 'long hair' post.

Honestly, though saying he did better than his 'long hair' topic is like saying someone is poorer than Bill Gates. It might be true but its not saying much.

[myth buster]

-------------Note: someone tried to explain to me that there is a "quote" function at the bottom of each post. I haven't been able to find that. I guess I'm just stupid!-------------------

Quote: Originally posted by myth buster

Let's see if I got this straight-


You haven't got anything straight yet, we'll see how well you do here.


Quote:

"God's" "chosen people," Jews, are all going to HELL because they are sinners who have rejected Jesus as their Messiah and savior.


For starters, there are a number of Jews who do accept Jesus as the Messiah, so you are wrong about that. Second, EVERYONE will be judged, you, me, and Jews. Thrid, God isn't done with the Jews yet.


Quote:

Anyone who has not been exposed to the "Word" cannot be held accountable and will not go to HELL.


There are several ideas about that. Some say that Jesus is the truth, the way, and the light, but you are judged according to how much 'truth' you are exposed to. Other say it doesn't matter how much 'truth' you were exposed to, you'll go to hell if you don't believe in the Son.

--------------------------Romans 5:13 "sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law." I guess I should call you stupid Crystal. Crystal you are SO STUPID! Actually, the right word would be "ignorant." You were ignorant about the fact that no one is accountable to the law where it hasn't been presented. That's the word you should've used when you were debating me previously, but obviously you're too childish to know basic vocabulary and you just wanted to be insulting like a good Christian. How old are you? 12? 13?-------------------
Quote:

Thus, primitive tribes in Borneo who have not been exposed to Jesus will not be held accountable for their sins.


No, ALL will be judged.

------------------DUMB-DUMB-DUMB-DUUUUUMB!------------------------
Quote:

So what happens to those people after they die?


Haven't died, when I do... I'll call and tell you.


Quote:

Do they get to go to Heaven regardless of how sinful they were?


No, it depends on how they were in life and how honnest they were in searching for the truth.

-----------GONG! Wrong answer.-----------------
Quote:

Conversely, a Muslim who grew up in the Islamic faith and naturally clings to this faith he grew up with will go to HELL if he studies Christianity and learns about Jesus only to reject him as a personal savior.


Why would he? That's God's judgement, not mine. Do you see yourself as sinful? If so, you might have something to worry about. FYI... there ARE Muslims who do become Christians and vise versa. You are allowed to convert to other faiths.

--------------------sin is a Judeo-Christian concept that has no relation to my life. In relation to the Judeo-Christian notion of "sin," I'm so sinful I could be the ANTICHRIST.-------------------
Quote:

So do you Christians really believe everyone who is a member of the world's fastest growing religion who has heard the "Good News" and rejects it will go to HELL?


Depends on the Christian you are refering to. I don't know who is going to hell. That's not my decision. Are you afraid of hell? If so, I guess you have something to worry about, if not, than what do you have to fear? It's only a 'myth' right?

-----------------right!----------------
Crystal

FYI you did a bit better here. I sure hope you are going to improve from the nonsense you posted with the 'long hair' post.

------------------Surely you're not going to get all nicey-nice on me after all the times you called me stupid are you? Judging from the angry reaction I got over the long hair post, it's quite obvious I got under some peoples' skin! You Christians tried awful hard to make it look like you didn't care that the Bible insults its own god, but I know better! I used to be a Christian (or used to call myslef one at least) and I can plainly see how embarrassing 1 Corinthians 11:14 is in relation to the popular image of Jesus. In fact, it's pretty embarrassing all by itself. Only a closed-minded dufus would have a problem with the length of a man's hair or any other way he chose to present himself. "Word of God" my [insert body part you find offensive here]!