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Does God follow the golden rule?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    You don't know what the word "intrinsic" means, I see.
    I take it to mean built-in.

    I think that Christianity has changed its mind about who is intrinsically equal - and really it does not matter what "intrinsic" means to observe that. The whole Curse of Ham thing was developed by Christians to rationalise not treating blacks as equal, and so making slavery morally. So while it is great that you personally consider all people to be equal, it is quite a stretch to claim that that is a universal view in Christianity. Shall we discuss how Christians treated native Americans (North and South America)? How about Pogroms?
    That's not what I asked.
    You want to how how I reached that decision? An understanding that people the world over are still people just like I am, in a nutshell. As Darwin established, we are all one race.
    As I said, it wasn't really an argument. But I've already explained what I meant. If you're unable to comprehend the analogy, I don't think I have the capability to simplify it further.
    Okay, no problem.
    My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      That's probably another thread, Whag, but... yeah, we eat cows but not horses.
      I've eaten horse. It tasted way too strong. Not that the thick yellow curry sauce helped.
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
        Sorry, I do not get the logic. God supposedly interacts with humans. Are his interactions limited by his own rule? For example, would he want someone to terminate his existent? If not, then is it morally okay for him to terminate someone elses?
        I don't understand your logic either. How could any of G-d's Creations terminate G-d? G-d is Eternal.

        Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
        Are you familiar with the commandment against murder? One of the obscure ones I guess, since you seeming have forgotten it.
        Your reasoning is tough to follow. I posted about the golden rule and you suddenly switched to murder while claiming I forgot about it. No, we weren't talking about it.

        You are under a misperception that G-d is just some sort of super-powered person. The Laws that G-d gave to us aren't applicable to G-d. There are laws that govern farming, G-d doesn't farm. There are laws to govern property transactions, G-d doesn't have property. The Laws that G-d gave us, are for humans to elevate our behavior to the holy. The idea that G-d needs to elevate G-d is nonsensical.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Scorching Wizard View Post
          I don't understand your logic either. How could any of G-d's Creations terminate G-d? G-d is Eternal.
          Ah, I see. So under the golden rule, God is happy for human's to terminate his existence, knowing full well they cannot, and therefore he thinkings it is okay to terminate their existence, know that he can. Have I got that right?
          None of the Laws that G-d has given us, apply to G-d. He doesn't procreate, doesn't consume, doesn't transact business, doesn't covet property, etc.
          Are you familiar with the commandment against murder? One of the obscure ones I guess, since you seeming have forgotten it.
          Your reasoning is tough to follow. I posted about the golden rule and you suddenly switched to murder while claiming I forgot about it. No, we weren't talking about it.
          It is tough to follow because, it seems, you cannot remember what you typed a few days ago.

          You posted about "Laws that G-d has given us". In the plural. Not just the golden rule, but others too. Then you cite a bunch of stuff God does not do, from which murder is conspicuously absent. Sure God does not conduct business, but he does kill people. Murder is specifically not allowed in one of his commands, as I am sure you know.

          But hey, we were talking about the golden rule. Does the golden rule cover murder? Why yes it does.

          See, Scorching Wizard, the point is this. In your list of things God does not do, you have been rather selective. You have cherry-picked those things that support your argument, and quietly ignored those that expose the gaping hole in it.

          And here I am pointing out the hole. God kills people. I am pretty sure God would not want to be killed.
          You are under a misperception that G-d is just some sort of super-powered person. The Laws that G-d gave to us aren't applicable to G-d.
          If you check the OP, I asked if they were applicable to God.
          There are laws that govern farming, G-d doesn't farm. There are laws to govern property transactions, G-d doesn't have property.
          There you go cherry-picking those laws that do not apply and ignore those that might.
          The Laws that G-d gave us, are for humans to elevate our behavior to the holy. The idea that G-d needs to elevate G-d is nonsensical.
          Ah, so by following certain laws we become more like God... Who does not follow those laws.

          Does that actually make sense to you? I have to say that if I wanted my children to grow up to be like me, I would have them follow the same rules as I do. Seems to me that if they follow different rules to me, then, well they will not be so much like me.
          My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

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          • #35
            God doesn't terminate our existence. We have immortal souls. He just judges us on our sins.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
              Ah, I see. So under the golden rule, God is happy for human's to terminate his existence, knowing full well they cannot, and therefore he thinkings it is okay to terminate their existence, know that he can. Have I got that right?
              It seems that you have a lively debate going on within your own head. I can't follow what you're going on about.

              Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
              It is tough to follow because, it seems, you cannot remember what you typed a few days ago.
              My first post in this thread was #25 in which I responded to your question "If G-d doesn't follow the golden rule, does that make Him a hypocrite". From what I see, nothing about murder was mentioned in either the question or my answer.

              Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
              You posted about "Laws that G-d has given us". In the plural. Not just the golden rule, but others too. Then you cite a bunch of stuff God does not do, from which murder is conspicuously absent.
              There are over 600 hundred laws. I also didn't mention about the laws of the Sabbath, farming or hundreds of other laws. Please refrain from making conclusions about things I don't say. AFAIK, we were discussing just the golden rule.

              Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
              But hey, we were talking about the golden rule.
              So you do know the facts.

              Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
              Does the golden rule cover murder? Why yes it does. See, Scorching Wizard, the point is this. In your list of things God does not do, you have been rather selective. You have cherry-picked those things that support your argument, and quietly ignored those that expose the gaping hole in it.
              Actually, I was talking about what was actually posted. The golden rule can apply to many different situations.

              Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
              And here I am pointing out the hole. God kills people. I am pretty sure God would not want to be killed.
              The only holes are in your understanding. Ok, so I get now that you don't really want to talk about the golden rule, but about murder. OK, we can switch. But please give me warning in the future instead of wild accusations.

              The commandment is from E x o 20:13 You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. I mention multiple laws together because that is how they are written. Context is important to understanding. Now just looking at this one complete verse, does it look like it is directed to G-d? Can G-d commit adultery? Does G-d bear false witness against His neighbor? Obviously not. Logically, this verse is not directed to G-d, but to the Hebrews that received these Laws. In fact, all 613 Laws were given to people by G-d. Not to G-d. Thus, by context, it is obvious that the commandment to not murder is not applicable to G-d.

              Going on, I find this murder accusation against G-d to be illogical. Is G-d guilty of murder whenever anyone dies for whatever reason? Does G-d get any credit for creating and allowing life? G-d didn't create us to be immortal. We all have temporary lives, we all will eventually die by various causes. That is life, not murder.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Scorching Wizard View Post
                Going on, I find this murder accusation against G-d to be illogical. Is G-d guilty of murder whenever anyone dies for whatever reason? Does G-d get any credit for creating and allowing life? G-d didn't create us to be immortal. We all have temporary lives, we all will eventually die by various causes. That is life, not murder.
                It's also probably good to keep in mind that to kill is to take another's life, while to murder is the unlawful or unjustified taking of life.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                  It's also probably good to keep in mind that to kill is to take another's life, while to murder is the unlawful or unjustified taking of life.
                  That is an interesting point. I could see the argument that while G-d doesn't murder, one could reason that G-d does kill. That moves the action from a commandment that G-d gave to humanity, to a non-commandment. G-d bestows life and G-d takes it away.

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                  • #39
                    Not to mention that God can bring the dead back to life, so it's not the same for Him to kill a person as it is for us to do so.
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Scorching Wizard View Post
                      It seems that you have a lively debate going on within your own head. I can't follow what you're going on about.
                      This is apparent. However, if you can clear up a few points, hopefully we can progress the discusision.
                      My first post in this thread was #25 in which I responded to your question "If G-d doesn't follow the golden rule, does that make Him a hypocrite". From what I see, nothing about murder was mentioned in either the question or my answer.
                      Correct. You cherry-picked moral issues that are not relevant to God to support your claim that the golden rule is not relevant to God, and apparently chose to ignore murder, which might be.

                      In case you have forgotten, here is what you said:

                      "None of the Laws that G-d has given us, apply to G-d. He doesn't procreate, doesn't consume, doesn't transact business, doesn't covet property, etc."

                      None of the laws? So actually you were not talking about just the golden rule, but all of them? Or have I missed something here?

                      In any case, the golden rule includes murder - or so I would say. Your carefully wording here would have us think it applies only top human matters, because you have chosen to select issues that apply to people only.
                      There are over 600 hundred laws. I also didn't mention about the laws of the Sabbath, farming or hundreds of other laws. Please refrain from making conclusions about things I don't say. AFAIK, we were discussing just the golden rule.
                      Here is what you said:

                      "None of the Laws that G-d has given us, apply to G-d. He doesn't procreate, doesn't consume, doesn't transact business, doesn't covet property, etc."

                      Looks to me like you made a statement about all of his laws when you stated "None of the Laws that G-d has given us, apply to G-d".

                      I look forward to you clearing this up for me, as this seems a bit point of confusion between us. When you said "None of the Laws..." did you make a statement about all the laws or just one?
                      Actually, I was talking about what was actually posted. The golden rule can apply to many different situations.
                      Correct. Would you agree that terminating the existence of another individual is covered? How about torturing another individual?
                      And here I am pointing out the hole. God kills people. I am pretty sure God would not want to be killed.
                      The only holes are in your understanding. Ok, so I get now that you don't really want to talk about the golden rule, but about murder. OK, we can switch. But please give me warning in the future instead of wild accusations. [/quote]
                      See that is me thinking murder is covered by the golden rule.

                      Is it your belief that the golden rule does not cover murder?

                      I do hope you can clarify exactly where you stand on this too, as you give the impression here that you think murder is not relevant to a discussion on the golden rule. Again, I think this is a cause of the confusion between us, so do please be clear.
                      The commandment is from E x o 20:13 You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. I mention multiple laws together because that is how they are written. Context is important to understanding. Now just looking at this one complete verse, does it look like it is directed to G-d? Can G-d commit adultery? Does G-d bear false witness against His neighbor? Obviously not. Logically, this verse is not directed to G-d, but to the Hebrews that received these Laws. In fact, all 613 Laws were given to people by G-d. Not to G-d. Thus, by context, it is obvious that the commandment to not murder is not applicable to G-d.
                      We are not talking about the commands in Exodus, we are talking about the golden rule.
                      Going on, I find this murder accusation against G-d to be illogical. Is G-d guilty of murder whenever anyone dies for whatever reason? Does G-d get any credit for creating and allowing life? G-d didn't create us to be immortal. We all have temporary lives, we all will eventually die by various causes. That is life, not murder.
                      There are plenty of examples in the Bible of God taking positive action to kill people. The plague on the first born is a good example.

                      Do you think that all that killing was justified? Do you think it is morally acceptable to kill a huge number of people to make a point to Pharoah? Or is it only morally okay if your God does it?

                      Is it still morally acceptable if God hardened Pharoah's heart before hand, to making the point required?
                      My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

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