The "Emergent Church" -- What exactly is it?

[Paprika]

Yeah, that sort of sounds like his views in books like Surprised by Hope. I don't know if I really buy the (non)distinction between conservative and liberal that he's trying to sell.

I think he makes it quite clear that there is a difference, but his point is that reality is much more complicated than a one-dimensional conservative/liberal or left/right spectrum, not least because such distinctions are always relative and dependent on time and culture.

He would argue, for example, that concern for the poor was a major concern of Christians in the first century. So does that make his position on that "conservative"?

[RBerman]

I did not know that. Would you mind expanding on this? I don't find this surprising, but it'd be nice to hear it from the horses mouth.

The American conservative/liberal splits of the late 20th century do not apply well to other times and places. Here is a book about it by a theologically conservative British evangelical observing the American political divide.

[OingoBoingo]

I think he makes it quite clear that there is a difference, but his point is that reality is much more complicated than a one-dimensional conservative/liberal or left/right spectrum, not least because such distinctions are always relative and dependent on time and culture.

He would argue, for example, that concern for the poor was a major concern of Christians in the first century. So does that make his position on that "conservative"?

Hmm, okay. I guess I see the point.

[OingoBoingo]

The American conservative/liberal splits of the late 20th century do not apply well to other times and places. Here is a book about it by a theologically conservative British evangelical observing the American political divide.

Thanks for the book recommend. Checking it out now.

[hedrick]

Ok, thanks. I don't know too much about Borg outside his affiliation with the Jesus Seminar and some of his work there. I know Crossan considers himself a Catholic, but I don't think he believes in the divinity of Christ, the virgin birth, or a literal resurrection. He believes in a metaphorical resurrection. I remember reading an interview with him where he admitted that he doesn't go to mass because he's concerned they wouldn't allow him to receive communion (I think his concern is justified).

I always considered Wright to be relatively conservative in his scholarship. I mean, he's right in the mainstream, but compared to Crossan, or even EP Sanders, he's probably more right than left. Where Wright seems liberal (compared to many American Christians) is his social and environmental concerns. But, honestly, I never dug too deep into his theological views.

When I think of liberal Christianity, I think people like Spong, Crossan, Shori, and Gene Robinson. People who advocate for homosexual unions and leadership, who have an extremely inclusive view of salvation, disbelief in hell or a belief in universalism, often a denial of the divinity of Christ, the sovereignty of God, and some who are even agnostic or atheist about belief in God. Does the emergent church tend to lean in these directions at times? McLaren and Pagitt seem to bend in this direction, others identified with the emergent church like Mark Driscoll do not. So I think that adds to the confusion about what is and isn't the emergent church. Would someone like Jay Bakker be considered a part of the emergent church?

[Paprika]

Wright's next book is likely to challenge the 'conservative' conception of him

[OingoBoingo]

Wright's next book is likely to challenge the 'conservative' conception of him

None of these sound particularly non-conservative to me. Maybe the evolution one, but plenty of conservative pastors and teachers believe in forms of theistic evolution. Plenty of conservatives are okay with women in leadership roles (especially post-Joyce Meyer), and what do environmental concerns really have to do with conservatism? I don't know, maybe I have a different idea about what's conservative and what's not. I think my conception of Wright would change if he came out and said that he didn't believe in a literal resurrection, or the sovereignty of God, and came out for gay church leadership.

[hedrick]

None of these sound particularly non-conservative to me. Maybe the evolution one, but plenty of conservative pastors and teachers believe in forms of theistic evolution. Plenty of conservatives are okay with women in leadership roles (especially post-Joyce Meyer), and what do environmental concerns really have to do with conservatism? I don't know, maybe I have a different idea about what's conservative and what's not. I think my conception of Wright would change if he came out and said that he didn't believe in a literal resurrection, or the sovereignty of God, and came out for gay church leadership.

Right. The positions listed are all things he is already known to favor, or we could reasonably guess that he would favor. He's made the case for women leaders in a number of places. Only people who believe in inerrancy oppose evolution, and he doesn't. He's known the be liberal politically.

[Paprika]

None of these sound particularly non-conservative to me.

Fair enough. In the culture I'm in, these would be pretty upsetting.

[Christian3]

[One Bad Pig]

Looks like a textbook case of eisegesis.

[Christian3]

Looks like a textbook case of eisegesis.

[One Bad Pig]

Pastors are, unfortunately, hardly immune to reading into Scripture what they want it to say. It could be that many people like the book because they like what it has to say.

[Christian3]

Pastors are, unfortunately, hardly immune to reading into Scripture what they want it to say. It could be that many people like the book because they like what it has to say.

What do you think Jesus meant when He said:

Matthew 9: 13 Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

Thanks.

[One Bad Pig]

What do you think Jesus meant when He said:

Matthew 9: 13 Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

Thanks.

Here, I think Jesus is referring to the Pharisaic and lawyerly penchant for making "hedge laws" and punishing infraction of those as if one were breaking a Mosaic law (which would require sacrifice for atonement). Instead of legally requiring atonement for every possible infraction, God looks at intent. If the intent was not to break the law, then we should apply mercy instead of requiring sacrifice.