The Real Holy Grail

[Kimberly]

So, I'm curious....

Is there really a Holy Grail? If so, where is it today? Does anyone have any recent information on this subject? I believe the things I've heard about it and the Catholic faith in general have pushed me farther and farther into Atheism than i ever would have imagined. I feel there is a scientific explantion for everything; and the subject of the Holy grail is one i would very much like an answer to. Or at least a response!

Thanks!

[spl_cadet]

1. Is there a Holy Grail? By definition, yes. It's the cup that Jesus drank from at the last supper.
2. Is it still around? Not a clue. Doesn't matter.

I feel there is a scientific explantion for everything;

Explain Lourdes then

[seang200]

There are better examples than the (almost certainly psychosomatic) healings after a Mary citing. Double blind tests are done with terminally ill patients. All patients have the same illness and are split up into groups (without them knowing it). One group is prayed for, the other isn’t (all without them knowing this). The group that is prayed for has a higher rate of survival and recovery. Also, life after death visions are interesting. When the person is clinically dead, but can recall what the doctors are doing to their body… even recalling exactly what type of operational procedure was used.

A book I highly recommend for the hardened skeptic is, Beyond Death: Exploring the Evidence for Immortality, by Gary Habermas and J. P. Moreland.

[Solly]

Thanks seang, i was only thinking the other day about asking for information and books on this subject. Habermas and Moreland should be reasonably good (reasonably, as in, it's a difficult area).

[bar Jonah]

I concur with Spl_Cadet.

Who cares?

[Piebald]

By definition, yes. It's the cup that Jesus drank from at the last supper.

And supposedly caught his blood at the crucifixion.

From what (admittedly little) I know about the "Holy Grail" stuff it just seems to be human focusing on some magical object rather than the real, deeper magic of the event it was present at (the last supper).

Besides, everyone knows it was the table they ate on that had the real power.

[Sheepdog]

well, after going through a series of dangerous traps, you come along an authentic crusader who is somehow still alive, and if you pick the right cup, you get immortal life when you drink from it.

oh wait, sorry. i get too much of my theology form movies

[Sheepdog]

do you have the Holy Table, Hamster?

i think it is strong evidence that mankind tends to forget the Creator and worship and adore His creation. even in the ranks of the Christian Church. how many True Crosses that Jesus was on were found?

[spl_cadet]

Only one Sheepdog. We've simply found a lot of little bits of it is all.

[seang200]

Sheepdog, you bring up the Romans point about us neglecting the Creator in lieu of His creation. Unfortunately, (much like Lourdes) when the Catholic church adheres to the Mariology doctrines of Co-Mediatrix and Co-Redemtress doctrines (not all Catholics adhere to this… I just wish to say I attended a Bible study at St. Clares here in my town for many a year, and there are many Catholics who get Who saved them). This is putting ones faith and fortune, if you will, in a creation rather than the Creator, Jesus.

Great point.

And we all know it wasn’t the table they sat at that had the power! But the candelabra on the table. The rumor goes that if you are struck over the head with it in the library by Col. Mustard, you will have eternal death.

[seang200]

Solly,

No problem, another book that deals with the subject in a chapter is, God: The Evidence: The Reconciliation of Faith and Reason in a Postsecular World, by Patrick Glynn. You may find this book a little more edible that Moreland and Habermas. This being said, Moreland and Habermas have created a volume that is almost encyclopedic, and well worth the read.

[LeiLani]

Hey, everyone knows that it isn't the grail, the table, or the candelabra that has the power, it's the bowl and towel that Jesus used to wash the disciples feet with!

But really, I don't know if the grail still exists or not, one of my friends at school did a paper on it, supposedly it's entombed in this concrete column... Maybe it's best no one knows where it is. If some artifact could be proved to be part of the real cross, or the real holy grail, or anything having to do with Jesus at all, especially if it had the powers that the Grail is supposed to have, people would probably start worshipping it in a sense. Jeez, there's a tortilla chip in Nevada that's enshrined because it supposedly has Jesus face burned onto it, can you imagine what it would be like if there was actually something that could be definately linked to Jesus?

[spl_cadet]

Sorry Leni, but the objects wouldn't be worshipped. Take the Shroud of Turin for example. Most Catholics believe that it is indeed the burial shroud of Christ. But we do not worship it. Same goes for the various bits of the True Cross.

Regarding the Blessed Virgin Mary as Mediatrix and Co-redemptrix:
http://ic.net/~erasmus/ERASMUS9.HTM#...ND%20MEDIATRIX

[BeHereNow]

seang200:

There are better examples than the (almost certainly psychosomatic) healings after a Mary citing. Double blind tests are done with terminally ill patients. All patients have the same illness and are split up into groups (without them knowing it). One group is prayed for, the other isn’t (all without them knowing this). The group that is prayed for has a higher rate of survival and recovery. Also, life after death visions are interesting. When the person is clinically dead, but can recall what the doctors are doing to their body… even recalling exactly what type of operational procedure was used.

A book I highly recommend for the hardened skeptic is, Beyond Death: Exploring the Evidence for Immortality, by Gary Habermas and J. P. Moreland.

-Seang- my friend and I were talking about this type of thing just the other day, about where patients describe the tools used even though their brain was literally off and not capable of creating new memories.

Can you tell me a little bit about how the book explains it? I just don't have time to read it right now, but I'm stumped as to how it would be possible.

~t~h~a~n~k~s~

[seang200]

BeHereNow, I will get back to you on this... Thanks for the inquery.