Blue Laws= State Sponsored Religion

[whayse1]

Although I live in Illinois, I was in Indianapolis, Indiana last weekend and decided to go to a car lot because I am considering replacing my road-worn, 20 year-old Volvo. Because it was Sunday, the car lot was closed, as mandated by state law. Additionally, it is illegal to buy alcoholic beverages on Sunday in Indiana. Most states still have some form of blue laws on the books although most are not enforced. My question is, in a nation where we have a constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion and its natural corollary freedom from religion, how are these laws still around? By forcing me, an agnostic/weak atheist, not to purchase a car or alcohol on a Sunday, isn’t the state of Indiana (or wherever) forcing me to adhere to the dictates of a particular religion (or more accurately, set of religions)? Is this not, the establishment of a de facto state religion? Is there some other compelling reason besides honoring the Sabbath that I shouldn’t be able to perform these transactions on a Sunday?

[Xavier]

Blue Laws are annoyingly well-enforced (or well-observed) here in Clemson, SC... Grrrrrrrrr.

[Bill the Cat]

The Supreme Court of the United States held in McGowan v. Maryland (1961) that Maryland's blue laws violated neither the Free Exercise Clause nor the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. While such laws originated to encourage attendance at Christian churches, the contemporary Maryland laws were intended to promote the secular values of "health, safety, recreation, and general well-being" through a common day of rest. That this day coincides with the Christian Sabbath neither reduces its effectiveness for secular purposes nor prevents adherents of other religions from observing their own holy days.

from Wiki

[Em7add11]

Some people don't like to work on Sunday, religious or not.

[HerodionRomulus]

The law has probably not been challenged.

I recall about 30 years ago the city was being pressured by stores etc to eliminate the blue laws which btw, specifically prohibited work being done (except police nurses etc)
The pastor of a big Baptist church was fighting to keep the laws.
One Sunday morning the Sheriff marched in during the sermon and arrested the pastor becuse he was violating the prohibition against working on the Sabbbath.

the law soon disappeared and now we can shop at Kmart all day Sunday if we want.

[Pilgrim]

The law has probably not been challenged.

I recall about 30 years ago the city was being pressured by stores etc to eliminate the blue laws which btw, specifically prohibited work being done (except police nurses etc)
The pastor of a big Baptist church was fighting to keep the laws.
One Sunday morning the Sheriff marched in during the sermon and arrested the pastor becuse he was violating the prohibition against working on the Sabbbath.

the law soon disappeared and now we can shop at Kmart all day Sunday if we want.

Forgive me if I say that your story rings false. It sounds more like the stuff of urban myth.

[whayse1]

The Supreme Court of the United States held in McGowan v. Maryland (1961) that Maryland's blue laws violated neither the Free Exercise Clause nor the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. While such laws originated to encourage attendance at Christian churches, the contemporary Maryland laws were intended to promote the secular values of "health, safety, recreation, and general well-being" through a common day of rest. That this day coincides with the Christian Sabbath neither reduces its effectiveness for secular purposes nor prevents adherents of other religions from observing their own holy days.

Thanks for the information!

While the Supreme Court is the final arbiter of such decisions, I don't see how they could logically disassociate the laws’ original intent from their current ostensible purpose. Although this issue is probably considered “small potatoes” by most, I think that someone needs to revisit this issue. It is also a bit of a stretch to say the day “coincides” with the Christian Sabbath, as if it was just a happy accident that liquor stores are closed on Sundays. I also don’t see how buying a car would interfere with anyone’s (except perhaps the car salesperson) “health, safety, recreation, and general well-being." Considering that most salespeople are paid on commission, they might argue that being able to sell cars on a day that most other people have off from work might actually help them in the aforementioned areas. One last thought…the court said that blue laws “..neither reduces its (the day of rest) effectiveness for secular purposes…” I have to say that one of the things that I enjoy is the practice of imbibing on the weekends and it definitely puts a cramp in my style when it comes to that, so I would beg to differ.

[NeilUnreal]

I recall that, whatever the reason they were originally enacted, some local businesses in smaller venues have fought to keep blue laws because they believe it increases their weekday and Saturday business by preventing excursions to larger venues on Sunday. In addition, the employee overhead might be greater for a small concern, so they operate more efficiently if open fewer hours.

In terms of the OP, a local car dealer might be willing to forego Sunday sales if it means potential customers can't make a longer excursion to a mega-car-mart too distant to reach on a weekday, and he doesn't have to pay employees for a whole day.

I'm not trying to argue whether this is good or bad economics, just pointing out some arguments I've heard for why blue laws have been supported by local businesses past the point where the original religious intent ceased to be a concern. i.e. It's the same reason many businesses close on one weekday (often Monday) except regulated to be a specific day.

-Neil

[Soundsurfr]

I should be allowed to operate my business any day of the week I choose.

Period.

[NeilUnreal]

...I think that someone needs to revisit this issue.

In a fairly large city where I used to live, it was revisted in the opposite way. A bunch of politically-influential local pastors got together and decided to enact Sunday-closing laws. To get around the establisment clause, the law's stated purpose was to give employees "family time," but there was really no doubt in anyone's mind that the intent was specifically religious. It was a pretty controversial move, with even a lot of fairly conservative Christians and opposing it*, but somehow it passed the city council.

There was a clause allowing drugstores and pharmacies to stay open, but they were only allowed to sell "necessary items." So, on the first Sunday, the only store open in the local mega-mall was the drugstore. But they basically decided that -- in the absence of specific restrictions -- everything was a "necessary item." Being the only show in town, the drugstores made a $haul$ that weekend.

The next Sunday, taking umbrage at that, more stores stayed open. A few recieved high-profile visits from the Sheriff's office, news media in tow. (The Sheriff's office didn't seem particularly happy about the new law and I suspect they saw high-profile enforcement as a way to increase the controversy).

The following Sunday, pretty much every business in town opened up as usual, and the Sheriff's office essentially chose not to enforce the law (I guess they deemed it not a "necessary item," ). After that, the whole city went back to business as usual on Sundays, having expended a lot of time and effort for nothing.

-Neil

*A lot of people from rural areas were hurt by losing their main shopping day in town, as were lower income people who depended on Sunday service-sector jobs. Since, given the local demographics, most of these folks were also Christians, there was much opposition even from the Christian community.

[HerodionRomulus]

Forgive me if I say that your story rings false. It sounds more like the stuff of urban myth.

I was living in the city at the time it happened but I will still give you absolution.

[whayse1]

I should be allowed to operate my business any day of the week I choose.

My thoughts exactly. Whether done in the name of religion or questionable social engineering, it is still a bad idea.

The next Sunday, taking umbrage at that, more stores stayed open. A few recieved high-profile visits from the Sheriff's office, news media in tow. (The Sheriff's office didn't seem particularly happy about the new law and I suspect they saw high-profile enforcement as a way to increase the controversy).

The following Sunday, pretty much every business in town opened up as usual, and the Sheriff's office essentially chose not to enforce the law (I guess they deemed it not a "necessary item," ). After that, the whole city went back to business as usual on Sundays, having expended a lot of time and effort for nothing.

I wonder what would happen if liquor stores and car dealerships in Indiana started doing this. Although buying Linenkugel's, Tequila or a Honda is a far cry from Ghandi or MLK, I would like to see some civil disobedience on this front.

[Conductor42]

The Supreme Court of the United States held in McGowan v. Maryland (1961) that Maryland's blue laws violated neither the Free Exercise Clause nor the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. While such laws originated to encourage attendance at Christian churches, the contemporary Maryland laws were intended to promote the secular values of "health, safety, recreation, and general well-being" through a common day of rest. That this day coincides with the Christian Sabbath neither reduces its effectiveness for secular purposes nor prevents adherents of other religions from observing their own holy days.

from Wiki

Others have religions that require them to take off a different day. For example, Judaism requires that one observe the Sabbath, and I believe Islam requires Friday. By enacting these laws, you are economically harming these people by preventing them from providing an income for their families on Sunday.

[Gromit45]

the law soon disappeared and now we can shop at Kmart all day Sunday if we want.

The ability to shop at Junkmart...er...Kmart is a good reason to KEEP the blue laws.

(btw, I never heard of blue laws. I guess it's NOT a SoCal thing.)

[guacamole]

Although I live in Illinois, I was in Indianapolis, Indiana last weekend and decided to go to a car lot because I am considering replacing my road-worn, 20 year-old Volvo.

How was GenCon ?. I suppose you went to the car lot only after the exhibition hall was closed? (What else would you be doing in Indy last week?)