Why symmetry (balance)

[hereoisreal]

Is life by design or by chance?

IMO, symmetry is the best proof of an IDOL. (Intelligent designer of life)
Science has never found two snow flakes alike, although 100 % have symmetry.
Science has never found two grains of sand alike nor do any have, by chance, symmetry.
Every living thing is symmetrical like the mercy seat in the Holy of Holies. (center of heaven)
There is a pattern in life. All living things are symmetrical just like the center of heaven, also like the name of the mother of all living, "EVE", as well as the creator's name, " I Am that I Am ".

Jos 8:33 And all Israel, and their elders, and officers, and their judges, stood on this side the ark and on that side before the priests the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, as well the stranger, as he that was born among them; half of them over against mount Gerizim, and half of them over against mount Ebal; as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel.
Chaos is natural. Order is mind made. Priorities are mind made, planed, set.

Life is about family and home

Luk 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air
[have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head.
The first thing God "made" was heaven, a rock in the middle, between "nests in the air" and "holes in the ground", something that doesn't move or change.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were]
under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
It's easier to form order from chaos than to create something from nothing, (See Gen. 1:2)
especially if you have a pattern:
Exd 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, [after] the pattern of the tabernacle…………
Exd 25:20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth [their] wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces [shall look] one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
Exd 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims ……
Eureka! I found it! (Father, son, and whole sphere, it.) It is "finished" and God sits in the middle. 100 % of all living things, plus all fossels, being symmetrical like the mercy seat, is a pretty good pattern. Try that with “chance”.
God between God is symetrical, also a treasure hidden in a field, leaven hidden in three measures, eleven hidden in 2112 (three measures), "A cd on a hil (child) can knot. Be hid ", God and two olive trees, God and two witnesses, God and two candle sticks, God and two thieves, the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof, also, a king, ass, and foal:
Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem:
behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly,
and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore
God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.(AZ)
Here is a puzzel. The two easiest pieces to find are the first and last, beginning and end.
AZ x it = Word (God x God)
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Why symmetry? It is balance.
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound;
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

While, IMO, vengeance is not a healthy motive for living, at least God gets even.
Even, so come Lord Jesus.
Zero

[Nicholas]

Is life by design or by chance?

IMO, symmetry is the best proof of an IDOL. (Intelligent designer of life)
Science has never found two snow flakes alike, although 100 % have symmetry.
Science has never found two grains of sand alike nor do any have, by chance, symmetry.
Every living thing is symmetrical like the mercy seat in the Holy of Holies. (center of heaven)
There is a pattern in life. All living things are symmetrical just like the center of heaven, also like the name of the mother of all living, "EVE", as well as the creator's name, " I Am that I Am ".

Jos 8:33 And all Israel, and their elders, and officers, and their judges, stood on this side the ark and on that side before the priests the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, as well the stranger, as he that was born among them; half of them over against mount Gerizim, and half of them over against mount Ebal; as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel.
Chaos is natural. Order is mind made. Priorities are mind made, planed, set.

Life is about family and home

Luk 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air
[have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head.
The first thing God "made" was heaven, a rock in the middle, between "nests in the air" and "holes in the ground", something that doesn't move or change.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were]
under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
It's easier to form order from chaos than to create something from nothing, (See Gen. 1:2)
especially if you have a pattern:
Exd 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, [after] the pattern of the tabernacle…………
Exd 25:20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth [their] wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces [shall look] one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
Exd 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims ……
Eureka! I found it! (Father, son, and whole sphere, it.) It is "finished" and God sits in the middle. 100 % of all living things, plus all fossels, being symmetrical like the mercy seat, is a pretty good pattern. Try that with “chance”.
God between God is symetrical, also a treasure hidden in a field, leaven hidden in three measures, eleven hidden in 2112 (three measures), "A cd on a hil (child) can knot. Be hid ", God and two olive trees, God and two witnesses, God and two candle sticks, God and two thieves, the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof, also, a king, ass, and foal:
Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem:
behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly,
and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore
God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.(AZ)
Here is a puzzel. The two easiest pieces to find are the first and last, beginning and end.
AZ x it = Word (God x God)
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Why symmetry? It is balance.
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound;
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

While, IMO, vengeance is not a healthy motive for living, at least God gets even.
Even, so come Lord Jesus.
Zero

Does that mean that asymmetry is proof that it wasn't designed?

Take this for example:

[hereoisreal]

Nicholas, this has been mentioned before when I talk of symmetry.

Flat fish are born symmetrical but change as they grow. That, I think,

is why they are called "flounder".

Blessings

Zero

[Nicholas]

Nicholas, this has been mentioned before when I talk of symmetry.

Flat fish are born symmetrical but change as they grow. That, I think,

is why they are called "flounder".

Blessings

Zero

The flounder still lacks symmetry. You stated that symmetry in nature was proof of design, but there is also asymmetry in nature. I alread listed the flounder as an organism that had obvious asymmetry, but another case is the sea sponge (Porifera). How do you explain this lack of symmetry?

[Gideon Brown]

I'm not sure what sort of 'symmetry' you mean here, since even outwardly symmetrical creatures (humans, e.g.) are internally asymmetrical. Moreover, in many cases, a symmetrical body shape is more energetically favourable than an asymmetrical one and thus is favoured by natural selection. For example, it takes less energy to walk if your legs are the same shape, size and length.

[hereoisreal]

Nicholas posted:
"I alread listed the flounder as an organism that had obvious asymmetry, but another case is the sea sponge (Porifera). How do you explain this lack of symmetry?"
**************************************************
And I already answered. They all start symmetrical.
Now a bank of coral is not symmetrical, but a coral is.
A pasture is not symmetrical but each blade of grass is.
A tree is not symetrical but each leaf is.
The tree of life, the one that, if you eat of, gives you eternal life, is
symmetrical. "She" is on the right, left, and the middle. Her leaves being
symmetrical doesn't hurt either.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
Gen 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
************************************
Tuck posted:
"a symmetrical body shape is more energetically favourable than an asymmetrical one and thus is favoured by natural selection"
***********************************
Tuck, I would give credit to where credit is due. As I stated, chaos is natural. Order
is "mind made" and you can see the difference.
I have more freckles on one side than the other. I also part my hair on the right. I have a crooked right finger and more scares in my right hand than left. I don't
even think those are by "chance".
Zero

[Minnesota]

[attachment]
ameoba

Flat fish are born symmetrical but change as they grow. That, I think,

is why they are called "flounder".

Not all flatfish are flounders. "Flounder" comes from either the Norwegian, flundra, for flat or broad. or the French flondre.

[hereoisreal]

Minnesota, any symmetrical thing will appear asymmetrical unless it is
viewed from the "fold" axis. There is one exception. Remember the
whole sphere "it"?

All fish, flat or round, start as a round fertilized egg.

Zero

[Minnesota]

Minnesota, any symmetrical thing will appear asymmetrical unless it is viewed from the "fold" axis.

So it's appearances you're talking about, not the form itself. And just what "'fold' axis" do you claim for the amoeba?

There is one exception. Remember the
whole sphere "it"?

????????????

All fish, flat or round, start as a round fertilized egg.

So what? Why do YOU get to pick and choose where symmetry trumps asymmetry? Is the shape of eggs now the criterion for deciding an organism's symmetry? How about those that reproduce without eggs, such as Trichoplax adherens,

[attachment]

another organism without symmetry. All living things are NOT symmetrical.

[hereoisreal]

Minnesota, Trichoplax adherens, I know nothing about. I am not a biologist.

I don't think symmetry trumps anything. I enjoy walking on the beach,
looking at sunsets and unusually shaped rocks. I have a collection of them.

I don't think any one has really seen life as I see it,and that may not matter.
At least that's my view by what I've seen posted.

Trichoplax adherens is not as important to me as my maker and the tree of life.

Blessings

Zero

[Minnesota]

Trichoplax adherens is not as important to me as my maker and the tree of life.

But your misinformed notion that "all living things are symmetrical " is important enough to base an entire thread on and to defend. I see, when proved wrong you retreat to a corner, grab your religious security blanket and before putting your thumb into your mouth, announce it all makes no difference, and Praise Jesus!



The backbone of a jellyfish.

[Nicholas]

Nicholas posted:
"I alread listed the flounder as an organism that had obvious asymmetry, but another case is the sea sponge (Porifera). How do you explain this lack of symmetry?"
**************************************************
And I already answered. They all start symmetrical.
Now a bank of coral is not symmetrical, but a coral is.
A pasture is not symmetrical but each blade of grass is.
A tree is not symetrical but each leaf is.
The tree of life, the one that, if you eat of, gives you eternal life, is
symmetrical. "She" is on the right, left, and the middle. Her leaves being
symmetrical doesn't hurt either.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
Gen 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

I had referred to Sponges, not Coral polyps.

[hereoisreal]

There are many forms of cancer and, to my knowledge, none are
symmetrical. They have no purpose or direction other than to feed
off of living things and destroy.

One might describe a “sponge” the same way. They waist more
than they eat. If five sponge loaves and two flat fish could feed
5,000, twelve baskets of scraps could feed an army.

Mat 16:9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

If 99.9999 % of living things are symmetrical, there could be a reason.
At least it’s worth looking in to.

I am not “wrong”. I’m just 99.9999 % right.

On symmetry:
Did you hear about the man who lost his left side?
He’s all right now.

Zero

[shunyadragon]

Nicholas, this has been mentioned before when I talk of symmetry.

Flat fish are born symmetrical but change as they grow. That, I think,

is why they are called "flounder".

Blessings

Zero

There is both symetry and asymmetry throughout the nature of existence from the subatomic level to astronomical level of the heavens.

By the way not all snowflacks are symmetrical, like all natural crystals some are not completely symetrical, but they will all have the same basic crystalline structure.

[Abelard]

Face facts. Intelligent design is a dead end for religion. Maybe if everything was demonstrated ID could make an agnostic believe in Deism.

But there is no way ID is going to bring people any closer to Christianity. ID has no allowance for a God who is perfectly ethical and perfect in love.

Paley's the "watchmaker must exist because watches were obviously made by someone" argument is absurd. I have a drawer full of watches. They have never reproduced, fought each other, suffered or worshipped. This silly watch analogy comes straight from Deism and completely avoids all of the important aspects of God and faith.

ID is not a theory, it is a prayer. It is an aesthetic appreciation of God, and is completely out of place in any sensible scientific discussion. ID is a wonderful secular doxology, but that's about as far as it can go.

Symmetry is aesthetics, not science. Appreciation for detailed systems is also aesthetics. ID works well for this, but as an attempt to validate religion without scripture I'm afraid it's hopelessly inadequate to the task.