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Thread: JWs coming to visit

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    tWebber Spartacus's Avatar
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    JWs coming to visit

    A couple JWs stopped by my house this last Saturday, and they said they'll be back Thursday morning. Their opening tack was about the purpose of Biblical prophecy, but we ended up focusing on the Eucharist. I'm in no sense afraid of them, but I'm more than a bit rusty with respect to apologetics, and I'm wondering what thoughts or tips y'all might have.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    A couple JWs stopped by my house this last Saturday, and they said they'll be back Thursday morning. Their opening tack was about the purpose of Biblical prophecy, but we ended up focusing on the Eucharist. I'm in no sense afraid of them, but I'm more than a bit rusty with respect to apologetics, and I'm wondering what thoughts or tips y'all might have.
    Curious, did they or did you bring up the issue of the Eucharist?

    Are you familiar with Catholic Answers? [Catholic.com.]
    If I was of the Catholic Faith would use them as a resource.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber Spartacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Curious, did they or did you bring up the issue of the Eucharist?

    Are you familiar with Catholic Answers? [Catholic.com.]
    If I was of the Catholic Faith would use them as a resource.
    I brought it up; off-hand, I could recall more stuff about the Eucharist than any other potential topic.

    Catholic Answers is where I got my start in apologetics. I was planning to look at their stuff to refresh my memory, but i was also wondering if anyone here had any other thoughts or tips.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Two major errors to note regarding the Watchtower teachings. Of course the deity of Christ, and the bodily resurrection. That the resurrected Jesus is now an immortal man (see 1 Timothy 2:5). I would also note that this man Jesus is our sole access to God (John 14:6).
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  5. Amen apostoli amen'd this post.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    A couple JWs stopped by my house this last Saturday, and they said they'll be back Thursday morning. Their opening tack was about the purpose of Biblical prophecy, but we ended up focusing on the Eucharist. I'm in no sense afraid of them, but I'm more than a bit rusty with respect to apologetics, and I'm wondering what thoughts or tips y'all might have.
    There are many good threads started by foudroyant in this section. He cites great scholars, and I personally found the citations effective in my dialogue with various JW's.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    A couple JWs stopped by my house this last Saturday, and they said they'll be back Thursday morning. Their opening tack was about the purpose of Biblical prophecy, but we ended up focusing on the Eucharist. I'm in no sense afraid of them, but I'm more than a bit rusty with respect to apologetics, and I'm wondering what thoughts or tips y'all might have.
    I just noticed your post, but if it isn't too late...

    Next time they come suggest to them that you'd really like to acquire a copy of "Reasoning from the Scriptures". I had a copy but can't find it!. It was/is a little book they used/use to prepare topics before they go door knocking, or if they are a newbie, draw upon to answer questions that stump them. They may avoid meeting your request. No problem the WB&TS have something of an online version. It is a great little book that is generally useful. Keep in mind that JWs do teach a central Christian message but they do have some ideas not held by most Christians or rejected by mainstream Christianity.

    One word of warning: Don't waste energy or time trying to prove Jesus is God the Son from the typical evangelical list of scriptures...

    Except for 2 Peter 1:1 there isn't a single scripture that isn't disputed grammatically by the experts in Koine Greek. 2 Peter 1:1 is disputed textually. A smart JW will just point you to the KJV and/or the ASV (the seminarian bible) where the rendering distinguishes between God and the Savior. Then they'd have you read vs2 which without question distinguishes between God and Jesus our Lord. Then they will point out that repetatively 2 Peter refers to Jesus as "our/the Lord and Saviour" 2 Peter 1:11; 2:20; 3:2,18. 2 Peter without dispute distinguishes between God and Jesus at 2 Peter 1:2,16-17 (disputedly at 2 Peter 1:1). Without dispute 1 Peter repetatively distinguishes between God and Jesus at 1 Peter 1:2,3,21; 2:5; 3:18,21-22; 4:11,14; 5:10. As with A.Paul's epistles, 1 Peter uses "God" exclusively of the Father of Jesus Christ.

    John 1:1c & John 8:40 with Genesis 18 and John 1:18 have the most potential. JWs acknowledge that "the angel of Jehovah" that appeared to Moses was the preincarnate Jesus, but Genesis 18 has Jehovah himself supping with Abraham. Given "no man has seen God at anytime" who did Abraham chat with? Refer to John 8:40.

    Concerning John 1:1c, JWs use to have an elaborate argument against Colwell's rule which is now redundant. The typical rendering of John 1:1c "the Word was God" is disputed by most grammarians as it doesn't fit the Greek (Harner proved this conclusively. Wallace, Mantey etc concured). Most modern grammarians hold that John 1:1c is qualitative and the NEB gives the best understanding "what God was the Word was". This fits with the testimony of the gospel at John 12:45; 14:9. If you can get your visitors to acknowledge this fact then you have a lead in to discussing the consubstantiality (homoousios) of the Son with the Father. You won't get them to accept the Trinity at this stage but Binitarianism is almost there ;-)

    __________

    My ex-wife was a fanatical JW, so I had to tolerate her persecution of me and my RCC ideas for a good 18 years (the elders and others in her congregation were great to me! I really liked most of them). I haven't had much (anything) to do with them since the early 1990s, and as I now live in what is increasingly a Muslim area I rarely see them (they sold their local hall), but from the last visit I had a couple of years ago, nothing much has changed in their beliefs in the last twenty five or so years...
    Last edited by apostoli; 09-16-2015 at 01:41 PM.

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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Did they come back? Any updates?
    Something is always happening, but when it happens, people don't always see it, or understand it... or accept it.

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