"The Bible Unearthed" - Exodus

[Richbee]

Finklestein is a Biblical Minimalists with a duly noted agenda.

Orion has been refuted many times over on the The Atlantic board, and he just keeps posting this stuff!

[Orion]

Finklestein is a Biblical Minimalists with a duly noted agenda. Orion has been refuted many times over on the The Atlantic board, and he just keeps posting this stuff!

Hi, Richbee. For your consideration...

Israel Finkelstein's credentials

BTW, Finkelstein is not a pioneer on this subject - he's simply reporting, to the interested public, the findings of contemporary ANE history/archeology uncovered by both himself and his peers and predecessors within the academic community.

I've been 'refuted many times' on this subject? Gee, I don't think so, Richbee. But, I welcome your contributions to this thread, so long as you contribute using your own words as opposed to cut&paste. You already know that I don't respond to cut&paste posts.

It might also help if you actually read The Bible Unearthed. Your doing so would allow you to do something more than simply throw rocks at Finkelstein and myself.

[Richbee]

Rocks? Well, in any case, let the visitors and posters judge for themselves, and so accordingly!


Here is an article that addresses some of the facts, and issues of dating, and I gladly, proudly and triumpantly post this, including the hotlink to the full article. It is my intention to bring more facts and a different perspective.



Who Destroyed Megiddo? Was It David or Shishak?

By Timothy P. Harrison

Did King David conquer and destroy Megiddo? Well, that depends partly on the date of Stratum VI. Let me explain why...• Edited by a Moderator •




[The Bible is true and accurate in regards to King Saul/David, and additional work will recover more evidence as it pertains to Moses and the Book of Exodus, IMHO. ]

Link to Source:


http://www.bib-arch.org/bswb_BAR/bswbba2906f1.html

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[Richbee]

You see Orion, I am *NOT* throwing rocks!



In fact, surely I am innocent as a Lamb!

:sher:

[Richbee]

Ha!

That was only a portion of the ARTICLE!!!

Too many words? OK

[Richbee]

I will attempt to post the core issue, and as a portion of the article found at the following link:

http://www.bib-arch.org/bswb_BAR/bswbba2906f1.html

Who Destroyed Megiddo? Was It David or Shishak?

By Timothy P. Harrison


Did King David conquer and destroy Megiddo? Well, that depends partly on the date of Stratum VI. Let me explain why.

.......However, in a series of articles,1 as well as in a recent interview in this magazine,* the head of Tel Aviv University’s Institute of Archaeology, Israel Finkelstein, has argued forcefully that Megiddo Stratum VI should be dated to the period of David and Solomon (otherwise known as the United Monarchy). Stratum VI was destroyed, he contends, by the Egyptian Pharaoh Sheshonq I, the Shishak of the Bible (1 Kings 14:25-26; 2 Chronicles 12:2-9).

[Orion]

Who Destroyed Megiddo? Was It David or Shishak?

An interesting question, Richbee, but I fail to see how it relates to the historicity of the biblical Exodus acccounts, which happens to be the subject of this thread. Did I miss something?

BTW, have you gotten around to reading The Bible Unearthed yet?

[Richbee]

Orion,

Finklestein gets the Bible wrong and key dates wrong in Megiddo?

Why should we trust his conclusions regarding Moses and the book of Exodus???

We also have few more issues, we have a false appeal to authority! Finklestein is not a Theologian.

Additionally, we have a case of Finklestein's agenda.

He sides with the Palestian cause, and wishes to degrade the land claims of Israeli's by making the case for different history that under cuts the Biblical account.

[Dr.GH]

I have been re-reading The Bible Unearthed. Better reasoned than I remembered. The objections raised by richbee are unsupported.

[Richbee]

For Finklestein, the lack of "evidence" is not EVIDENCE!

Then again, we never have conclusive evidence for Moses and the Exodus.

Finklestein is free to sell books advancing any theory or agenda he wishes.

[Passant]

For Finklestein, the lack of "evidence" is not EVIDENCE!

Yes it is, when you claim some milion odd people wandered an area of a few hundred miles for 40 years.

[Richbee]

Ah, yes, after wandering in the desert for 40 years, one should be able to find left over Manna from Heaven!

[Undomiel]

I always like to start off topics like this by running them through my logic filter [these things actually crossed my mind while pondering your questions]:

1. What would be the purpose of constructing a complex historical book, dedicating it to memory, passing it down for centuries, either orally or in writing, and carefully guarding it for millenia if it were nothing more than wishful thinking by an entire race of people.

2. Why would this particular account face the fire of refinement in such excruiating detail, in comparison to the countless other historical books of other civilizations, races, people.

3. Why would their history alone, be so scant in archaeological digs. Surely they didn't just materialize one day. There has to be some record of their existence somewhere. The lack of it, leads me to believe other forces have acted against it (i'll explain in a minute).

4. Why would rulers who had kept them as slaves, leave no indication they had done so.

--------

Possible answers my brain came up with:

What would be the purpose of constructing a complex historical book, dedicating it to memory, passing it down for centuries, either orally or in writing, and carefully guarding it for millenia if it were nothing more than wishful thinking by an entire race of people.

This is simply ridiculous. They have a history in the Bible/Torah. They have a country. They have literature galore. Trying to annihilate their memory by refusing to believe it ever happened, is really.... weird and obsessive.

Why would this particular historical account of a people face the fire of refinement in such excruiating detail, in comparison to the countless other historical books of other civilizations, races, people.

This one really floors me. I have NO CLUE. It just seems totally illogical to me, bordering on psychotic and freaky, that anyone would go to that much trouble to refuse an entire race their heritage and history.

Why would their history alone, be so scant in archaeological digs. Surely they didn't just materialize one day. There has to be some archaelogical record of their existence somewhere. The supposed lack of it, leads me to believe other forces have acted against it (i'll explain in a minute).

The pharaohs were famous for erasing the memories of their enemies from their records, this much is a given. Moses would've qualified as an especially lethal enemy of the pharaoh and Egypt, itself. Afterall, according to the account, he was a Prince in line for the throne at one point. The israelite people were a mish mash of israelites who followed egyptian religion and israelites who followed the hebrew religion. Their melding into egyptian society was probably seamless for the most part. Their style of dress would be the same. They would appear like all the other pyramid builders and workmen, who were natural born egyptians. It isn't likely there was a big differentiation, culturally, except for those who openly tried to practice the hebrew religion. In hieroglyphics they were probably simply referred to as slaves or workmen. It would be Moses, specifically, who would've been in the record and then stricken from the record.

In addition, since the days of the Egyptian empire, four additional separate and unique world empires have had their fingers in the proverbial historical pie - Greek, Roman, Catholic and Muslim. At least three of those would've had very good reasons to destroy hebrew archaeological relics and in fact, that is still going on today on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

[Orion]

What would be the purpose of constructing a complex historical book, dedicating it to memory, passing it down for centuries, either orally or in writing, and carefully guarding it for millenia if it were nothing more than wishful thinking by an entire race of people.

A great many ancient societies constructed legends concerning their origins. The literal truth of these legends is not as important as is the fact that they tended to bind people together and gave them a sense of common history.

This is simply ridiculous. They have a history in the Bible/Torah. They have a country. They have literature galore. Trying to annihilate their memory by refusing to believe it ever happened, is really.... weird and obsessive.

Are you suggesting that the objective of ANE archeologists/historians is to attack the Bible? That this objective constitutes some sort of grand conspiracy?

[James]

11-20-2003 @ 01:00 AM post located here
Undomiel:

1. What would be the purpose of constructing a complex historical book, dedicating it to memory, passing it down for centuries, either orally or in writing, and carefully guarding it for millenia if it were nothing more than wishful thinking by an entire race of people.

One might say as much about the Illiad or the Odyssey. Like Exodus, both describe personal interactions with gods and fantastic events that seem to be ficticious, even though there may be a kernel of truth in the story (Such as an actual battle at the city of Troy).

2. Why would this particular account face the fire of refinement in such excruiating detail, in comparison to the countless other historical books of other civilizations, races, people.

As above, if you apply the same criteria to the Illiad or the Odyssey, you will find that they contain about the same amount of confirmable historical truth as Exodus.