A quote from Andrew Murray

[Shazard]

How about Luke 16:19-31...

Clearly Lazarus has no body, he is dead and his body has been buried, And according to you his spirit is still dead since he is not with God. Indeed, since the spirit of a man returns to God (Eccl 12:7) we can assume here that is where his spirit went. So what is left? His soul.

And again! We are here talking about earthy condition of will or condition of will when one is dead?

Now you do have a point that a soul in prison doesn't have freedom....BUT...that does not mean he has no will. Do not confuse the two.

I don't. To have will does not mean to have it free!

Clearly Lazarus has a will here...it is his will that the beggar dip his finger insome water to quench him and laso his will that somebody be sent back to warn his brothers. But since he is in prison he is powerless to effect his will. If anything this would be closer to Jane's bound will, a partial truth, for the will always has restirictions or limitations on what it can effect, nevertheless it never ceases to exist.

Thanks God... now you understand what is "bound will" and what is free will. BTW you are messing Lazarus with rich man here!

OK, now I’ve showed you a soul functioning without a body or a spirit.

And you nicely prooved that even THEN will is not free
BTW You didn't proove that Soul acts without Spirit. As places you cited is from viewpoint of alive person. According to the same scriptures Lazarus were "With God". And as pointed out, "Soul" often is interchangable with "Spirit".

Now you show me a soul, even one with no freedom, that has no will of it's own.

Freedom to do what? Or freedom from what?

As I've said before, every man has a will, every man has a destiny...these are not in contradiction to each other.

To have Will and to Have FREE Will it is two different things. Sorry if you can't understand it, then it is not your time to understand this distinction yet. But I see you don't deny Jesus Christ, so God is working and show you what is your part of salvation. But no worries, what is impossible for man is possible for God, even save such sinners as you and me!

[Forrest]

BTW You didn't proove that Soul acts without Spirit. As places you cited is from viewpoint of alive person. According to the same scriptures Lazarus were "With God". And as pointed out, "Soul" often is interchangable with "Spirit".

:

You can't prove anything to somebody who has closed their mind to your words. My goal was never to prove anything to you or any other Calvinist.

The spirit returns to God...The soul can be lost...That's in the Bible.

I'll repeat my initial thesis...Calvinists cling to what they believe because they are unable or unwilling to distinguish the soul from the spirit. They do not accept or comprehend that the will is in the soul, not the spirit.

Your adherence to your doctrine and denial of the distinction between spirit and soul only echoes my initial statements. In effect, your behavior and that of Bnon only followed what I already predicted, a determination not to differentiate soul and spirit. Why? To do so is fatal to your doctrine. How much you want to bet the non-Calvinists here all see a difference between soul and spirit?

[Michael T.]

How much you want to bet the non-Calvinists here all see a difference between soul and spirit?

You’re majoring in minor matters. If and when God brings any person to salvation in Christ, then, according to the Apostle Paul, then in ultimate terms the entire person is saved.

Michael T.

[Forrest]

You’re majoring in minor matters. If and when God brings any person to salvation in Christ, then, according to the Apostle Paul, then in ultimate terms the entire person is saved.

Michael T.

That would be my point...that the Calvinist insistance is majoring on a minor thing based on the root error of not distinguishing soul and spirit. Indeed, when a man comes to the saving grace of God his spirit is brought to life and the work of renewing the mind (changing the way the soul thinks) begins.