Originally posted by Jichard
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostAll of which are irrelevant. Nothing about an idea being 'unnatural' or 'counterintuitive' puts it beyond the realm of human ingenuity, but Kbertsche has made it clear he wasn't trying to claim it did.
If it could be either, what is the point of the argument?Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-21-2015, 04:40 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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[QUOTE=shunyadragon;266026]I disagree that would be part of Kbersche's argument. He has disagreed with me strongly when I proposed that these or this Christian concept(s) could possibly be natural and intuitive. There is also his claim that the concept of the Trinity is unique, despite the similarity with the concepts in other religions. This claim would translate to the argument that the concept was of a non-human origin. Which would it be than; Alien or God?
There's a big difference between thinking it's possible for a certain thing to happen and thinking that it actually did happen that way. One can affirm the former without needing to affirm the latter.
Similarity does not negate uniqueness. "This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine."
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIf it could be either, what is the point of the argument?I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI disagree that would be part of Kbersche's argument. He has disagreed with me strongly when I proposed that these or this Christian concept(s) could possibly be natural and intuitive. There is also his claim that the concept of the Trinity is unique, despite the similarity with the concepts in other religions. This claim would translate to the argument that the concept was of a non-human origin. Which would it be than; Alien or God?
Similarity does not negate uniqueness. "This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine."
To counter Jichard's nonsense claim that science is speshul.
If you read Kbertsche's posts he does strongly argue that the uniqueness of the Trinity belief is unique and cannot be explained by natural and intuitive explanations.
If all this is amounts to is a 'my rifle versus your rifle,' you have confirmed the meaningless of the argument.
In reality both arguments are flawed asserting two extremes based on 'What I believe,' without considering the middle logical position.Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-21-2015, 05:32 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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I thought I would add an interesting side note on what my 'belief' is concerning the issue of whether the Trinity is 'intuitive and natural (likely of human origin) or 'counterintuitive or unnatural (not likely of human origin).' I believe that the Trinity was based on human reasoning of what was believed was true based on the scripture they had. I do not believe the Trinity is a true description of the nature and relationship of Christ to God, and what is described as the Holy Spirit. I base a great deal of my argument on Old Testament writings, Historical evidence of the origins and nature of NT text, the evolution of Christian belief and doctrines, and my 'belief' in the Baha'i Faith. I believe in a strict Monotheism of an apophatic God. I believe it is the result of Greek and Roman influence when Christianity became Roman. This is a 'belief' and I would not present this 'belief' in terms of an argument, either or, as Kbersche and Jichard do.
I most definitely would not compare my argument and logic methods in a theistic argument with the methods and logic of science.Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-21-2015, 07:20 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI do not believe the above addresses my questions.
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIf all this is amounts to is a 'my rifle versus your rifle,' you have confirmed the meaningless of the argument.
There are a lot of tropes that show up time and again in human stories. It's tempting to write off all appearances of a given trope as being identical, but doing so only exposes ignorance. The devil is in the details, as they say, and in the case of mythologies that is truer than ever. Coming back from the dead isn't a unique concept, but Osiris, Baldur and Jesus all go about it in significantly different ways. Lumping them together is only possible if you ignore all the specifics that make the story what it is. The same is no less true for the concept of the trinity.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostI don't find much that tells me you even understood what I said. And a good indicator of that is this comment:[
I've learned over the years that it's practically guaranteed that any idiom or metaphor I use will be parroted back in a way that makes it clear you don't actually know what they mean. I'm chalking this up as more of the same.
There are a lot of tropes that show up time and again in human stories. It's tempting to write off all appearances of a given trope as being identical, but doing so only exposes ignorance.
The devil is in the details, as they say, and in the case of mythologies that is truer than ever. Coming back from the dead isn't a unique concept, but Osiris, Baldur and Jesus all go about it in significantly different ways. Lumping them together is only possible if you ignore all the specifics that make the story what it is. The same is no less true for the concept of the trinity.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostKbertsche is a scientist. What are you JerkTard (beyond professional troll)?
what kind of scientist is Kbersche that would give him special qualification for being an authority and ex-spurt in this thread!?!?!?!?!?Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
SO predictable.
You got nothing, Shuny. See ya in another thread.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostAgain . . .
what kind of scientist is Kbersche that would give him special qualification for being an authority and ex-spurt in this thread!?!?!?!?!?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostMy understanding is he is a physicist.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI need more specifics as to the claim that he is a scientist.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI need more specifics as to the claim that he is a scientist.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou mean as opposed to a faux scientist like you Shuny? How come you never present your qualifications?Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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