On the way to Iraq we should hit Chriac's house

[Blake Reas]

This guy is ridicoulous, I mean who is he for? To me it seems he is kissing Sadaam's but because they have made deals with each other recently! Chirac and Schroeder are also our enemies. Whoever does not want Sadaam out of Office is sick in the head!

In Christ,
Blake

P.S. I don't think we should really bomb him!;)

[GrayPilgrim]

Blake Reas:
P.S. I don't think we should really bomb him!;)

Why not? I think Otto von Bismark would have done us all a favor in 1870 if they had just kept on going! [But then again I always have liked Germany]. Don't get me wrong Schroeder is just as much a dimwit. THe only reason he is against the USA is that its the only way to keep this unpopular Kanzler in office.

GP

[Alden]

GrayPilgrim:


Why not? I think Otto von Bismark would have done us all a favor in 1870 if they had just kept on going! [But then again I always have liked Germany]. Don't get me wrong Schroeder is just as much a dimwit. THe only reason he is against the USA is that its the only way to keep this unpopular Kanzler in office.

GP

Maybe Bismark should have kept going! It's a pity that the world doesn't have more leaders with the intelligence and analytical skills of people like Bismark and Churchill. I may not have always agreed with all of Bismark and Churchill's aims, but people like Schroeder and that nearly-elected nationalist moron Le Pen don't even hold a candle.

[Socrates]

Blake Reas:
This guy is ridiculous, I mean who is he for? To me it seems he is kissing Sadaam's but because they have made deals with each other recently! Chirac and Schroeder are also our enemies. Whoever does not want Sadaam out of Office is sick in the head!

I agree, and Australia supports the USA. But there is a joke going around here that makes a good point:

John Howard (Prime Minister of Australia): Mr President, what actual evidence do you have that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction?

Dubya: We have the receipts!

[kiwimac]

Hmmm,

You do , of course, realise that both France and Germany have nukes??

I'll tell you who Chirac / Le Pen and Shroeder are, they are the freely elected heads of foreign governments & it's just tough that the US can't bully them into toeing the party line isn't it?

Hopefully the EU will pull out of this sick attempt at revenge on the part of your President who, frankly, couldn't find his donkey with his hands!

Kiwimac

[Socrates]

kiwimac:
I'll tell you who Chirac / Le Pen and Shroeder are, they are the freely elected heads of foreign governments

So was Neville Chamberlain.

[GrayPilgrim]

kiwimac:
Hmmm,

You do , of course, realise that both France and Germany have nukes??

France I knew, but I was unaware that Germany had their own nukes. I was under the impression that in teh 80s the Germans wanted US militray bases closed that had nukes.

THey may be freely elected but so were the leaders of France and GB in the 30's (even before Neville "Piece of Paper" Chamberlin), who allowed Hitler to turn the Reichswehr (a joke of 100,000 old farts) into the Wehrmacht (Heer, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine, Waffen-SS) and to amass such might that it took the full arsenals of the US, USSR, GB (Canada, India, Australia, other countries part of the Common Wealth)... to stop him. Look at that, a country the size of Oregan was able to hold off the world for six years, and htat was after only being in power 5 1/2 years! Sadam has been in power for closer to 30. 12 years since his last woopin' and all the while he has been doing nothing but plot his revenge and amassing dirty tricks, now we are supposed to respect the cries for appeasment from the French and the Germans! Boy talk of the abrogation of moral right!

Rememebr that when society ceases to beleive in absolutes, society becomes absolute and thus removes the ability for anyone to think outside of their society. There are times you do things because they are right, and the concsequences be DDW'ed!

GW is much smarter than you let on. So he can't fake tears or fake the other heirs of otehr politicians as well. He's obviously smart enough to get elecetd and so he not only found his donkey but kicked Gore's to the curb!

[Ryokan]

minor point: The Reichswar alternated out so that there was actuallly a decent # of Germans with military training, and the excellent German officer corp that smashed Poland and France, as well as the Soviets for a very long time, was the Reichswehr. They were the "bright" spot in military thought of the time, and developed the combined arms doctrine we see today.

[Blake Reas]

kiwimac:
Hmmm,

You do , of course, realise that both France and Germany have nukes??

I'll tell you who Chirac / Le Pen and Shroeder are, they are the freely elected heads of foreign governments & it's just tough that the US can't bully them into toeing the party line isn't it?

Hopefully the EU will pull out of this sick attempt at revenge on the part of your President who, frankly, couldn't find his donkey with his hands!

Kiwimac

Yeah they have nukes and we have plenty more. The fact is that Hussein needs to be taken out of office and we are going to do it whether people in Little New Zealand like it or not or whereever else. You folks will have to get over it. We are the only ones fighting for Justice.

In Christ,
Blake

[kiwimac]

Deary Me, the Testosterone level is almost as high as the stupidity!

Hussein has no weapons of mass destruction, he has no tie to Al-Qaeda, he was not involved in the Sept 11th incident.

Ah ... but he does have oil....

Let me quote from Major-General Smedley Butler, USMC

Major-General Smedley Butler on Interventionism

"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defence at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns six per cent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 per cent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again, as I have done, to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for: one is the defence of our homes, and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss": supernationalistic capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man, to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers.

In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long.

I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had--as the boys in the back room would say--a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

(Source: Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by Major-General Smedley Butler, USMC.)

The more times change the more things stay the same

Kiwimac

[Socrates]

Kiwimac shows his insular mentality:
Hussein has no weapons of mass destruction, he has no tie to Al-Qaeda, he was not involved in the Sept 11th incident. Ah ... but he does have oil....

I wonder how Kiwimac can prove such negatives ... I do find it ironic that some arguments against invading Iraq are "Saddam might use chemical or biological weapons". Oh, but I thought he had none to use.

Humph, Sodom Hussein has thumbed his nose at the UN long enough, but they let him get away with it. And that virago Helen Clark (New Zealand's Prime Minister, for the benefit of our Northen Hemisphere friends) has too much faith in that organisation full of corrupt murderous dictatorships.

Oh yes, NZ and the UN support sanctions, but they hurt the people far more than what would have happened if Bush Sr. had finished the job the first time round!

And I will repeat -- the US should consider its role in creating the monster Saddam in the first place, and refuse to help despots as it has done so often in the past.

Oh, and do you really oppose all war, even that against Hitler? There probably wouldn't be any Jews alive, and you'd be speaking Japanese, buddy.

[Captain Ochre]

kiwimac:
Deary Me, the Testosterone level is almost as high as the stupidity!

Hussein has no weapons of mass destruction, he has no tie to Al-Qaeda, he was not involved in the Sept 11th incident.

Ah ... but he does have oil....

Let me quote from Major-General Smedley Butler, USMC




The more times change the more things stay the same

Kiwimac

The circumstantial evidence that Hussein has weapons of mass destruction appears clear, kiwimac. Why a warhead designed for chemical cargo if the Iraqis have no chemical to put inside? Why should Hussein blow off the United Nations and break the terms of surrender if he's Mister Innocent behind his poor attempt at a Groucho moustache? Why are Muslim neighbors so willing to see him go (not to mention his own people, who are murdered at his whim according to commonplace reports)?
No connection with al Quaida? When did you confirm this, or was it the special powers of argumentum ad ignoratiam that permit your claim?

Is the Butler quotation really supposed to be relevant when Butler wrote before jet airplanes, intercontinental missiles, suitcase bombs, and genetically tailored germ warfare? Let alone commonplace international travel? I would hope that Butler would take at least 5 minutes to reconsider his words if he were aware of those things, and of a willingness to use them on the part of an enemy.

[Alden]

I'll tell you who Chirac / Le Pen and Shroeder are, they are the freely elected heads of foreign governments & it's just tough that the US can't bully them into toeing the party line isn't it?

WE were joking

And Le Pen was not elected

[Alden]

Hussein has no weapons of mass destruction

What is Serin gas?

What is Ricin?

What is Anthrax?

What is Mustard gas?

[kiwimac]

Alden:


What is Serin gas?

What is Ricin?

What is Anthrax?

What is Mustard gas?

Wow!, You have managed to find something that the Weapon's Inspectors have missed, WELL DONE! Tell us all please, where were they hidden? How were they stored ? and how did they drop your team into Baghdad.

As for Helen Clark, Socrates, envy does not become you. Ms. Clark is a highly-intelligent woman, unlike the BUSH-LITE in Canberra who, if he wagged his tail any harder when GW patted him would have his behind fall off!

Further your comment

Oh, and do you really oppose all war, even that against Hitler? There probably wouldn't be any Jews alive, and you'd be speaking Japanese, buddy.

is a simple strawman as I had never mentioned WW2.

However, now that you've mentioned it, during WW2, every time non-violent confrontation was used against Nazi Germany it worked! (I can provide the references if you would like!)


As for the chemical warheads, Capt. Ochre. NZ has a Radiation testing laboratory which produces uranium, does that mean we have a nuclear weapons program? Buried in a number of land-fills around this country are old war-heads for artillery pieces, designed to carry, among other things, Mustard Gas (WW1 you know) does that mean that we have WMDs?

It's not whether Hussein HAS the war-heads its whether he has the infrastructure which would enable the production of WMDs and he does not. Moreover, according to at least two former chief weapons inspectors, he cannot because security agencies worldwide are specifically looking for any sign of the kinds of purchases of equipment that you would need to make 'em.

Nope, let's be clear here, this is about America being a bully and about US hunger for oil. In this case Butler's quotation is indeed germane because it shows that the US has a history of putting its economic interests ahead of the rights of citizens of other countries to life, liberty and the pursuit of whatever happiness they can find..

Further, let me simply add, that a Christian would see quite clearly that wars solve NOTHING. Jesus told us to overcome hatred with love, to treat our enemy as we would be treated, to act out of a concern for the other's well-being, not to nuke 'em till they glow!

Kiwimac