"Are Mormons Christians" by Stephen Robinson

[One Bad Pig]

Do you think that if Saint Peter wandered into an EO worship service, he would say, "Yep, just like we've always done it"?

He would notice some differences, but the overall format would be the same. The Liturgy of the Word (the first half of the service, more or less) is still recognizably similar to Jewish synagogue worship, and the Eucharist is still offered based on the biblical formula and is the climax of the service.

[Daniel7:14]

Thanks Sparko for the answer, I visited the site you provided and found it to be very interesting!!!!!!

I had heard that the "new revelation" that Smith had been given, was the unadulterated word of God, word for word! That all others were filled with error and departed from the truth that God had wanted to be conveyed. Yet, I also understand that there have been over 300 "revisions" to the unadulterated word of God that was given to him.

If that is the case, then was Smith wrong to begin with, or are "current" day Mormons just as deceived as the rest of the world? They can't have it both ways, or can they?

Bless,

Dan

[Sparko]

Thanks Sparko for the answer, I visited the site you provided and found it to be very interesting!!!!!!

I had heard that the "new revelation" that Smith had been given, was the unadulterated word of God, word for word! That all others were filled with error and departed from the truth that God had wanted to be conveyed. Yet, I also understand that there have been over 300 "revisions" to the unadulterated word of God that was given to him.

If that is the case, then was Smith wrong to begin with, or are "current" day Mormons just as deceived as the rest of the world? They can't have it both ways, or can they?

Bless,

Dan

I have long ago stopped expecting Mormons to be logical.

[RBerman]

He would notice some differences, but the overall format would be the same. The Liturgy of the Word (the first half of the service, more or less) is still recognizably similar to Jewish synagogue worship, and the Eucharist is still offered based on the biblical formula and is the climax of the service.

Well, a Model T is "recognizably similar" to a Formula One racecar too, but no one would mistake the two. Anyway, this isn't the thread in which to pursue this further. Mormonism is a false religion. That doesn't prove that a specific person who identifies as a Mormon is not a Christian in the eyes of God, but it's a big red flag for our limited human discernment ability.

[OtherCheek]

Thanks Sparko for the answer, I visited the site you provided and found it to be very interesting!!!!!!

I had heard that the "new revelation" that Smith had been given, was the unadulterated word of God, word for word! That all others were filled with error and departed from the truth that God had wanted to be conveyed. Yet, I also understand that there have been over 300 "revisions" to the unadulterated word of God that was given to him.

If that is the case, then was Smith wrong to begin with, or are "current" day Mormons just as deceived as the rest of the world? They can't have it both ways, or can they?

Bless,

Dan

In the LDS Faith, there is something that takes a higher precedence than "text". That is why you may be confused that there are (perhaps 2-3) significant revisions in the Book of Mormon. That "thing" that holds a higher precedence than "text" is "prophets" living in our day and time. And so when Joseph Smith makes a revision on the text that he translated himself, we don't make such a big deal out of it all.

[Sparko]

In the LDS Faith, there is something that takes a higher precedence than "text". That is why you may be confused that there are (perhaps 2-3) significant revisions in the Book of Mormon. That "thing" that holds a higher precedence than "text" is "prophets" living in our day and time. And so when Joseph Smith makes a revision on the text that he translated himself, we don't make such a big deal out of it all.

You don't make a big deal about it because you don't bother to stop and think about what you are saying. If a prophet claims something is God's word on a matter one day, then changes his mind the next, then either:

1. You can't trust God's word because he keeps changing it.
2. You can't trust the prophet because he is either lying about hearing God's word, or he is hearing it very badly and so how can you be sure that the "correction" is the real word of God and not the original? Or something entirely different that will be revealed later?

[Cow Poke]

In the LDS Faith, there is something that takes a higher precedence than "text". That is why you may be confused that there are (perhaps 2-3) significant revisions in the Book of Mormon. That "thing" that holds a higher precedence than "text" is "prophets" living in our day and time. And so when Joseph Smith makes a revision on the text that he translated himself, we don't make such a big deal out of it all.

In other words, Smith gets a pass because he's Smith.
And future "Smiths" have the power to revise and extend Smith's remarks whenever they feel the need arises.
I don't think Brown Cat is "confused" about anything here.

[nrajeff]

I have long ago stopped expecting Mormons to be logical.

---How ironic that your insult against the ability of an entire group of people to be logical, is itself a logical fallacy (generalization).

You might as well have said that you have stopped expecting Jews to be selfless, while you yourself have a history of selfishness.

The hypocrisy just doesn't get any more blatant.

Is it any wonder that this forum is starting to make Carm look fair and balanced?

[Cow Poke]

---How ironic that your insult against the ability of an entire group of people to be logical, is itself a logical fallacy (generalization).

You might as well have said that you have stopped expecting Jews to be selfless, while you yourself have a history of selfishness.

The hypocrisy just doesn't get any more blatant.

Perhaps he should have been more specific, just like I should have been... "the Mormons who post most frequently on Tweb's Mormon forum". Is that better?

[Sparko]

---How ironic that your insult against the ability of an entire group of people to be logical, is itself a logical fallacy (generalization).

You might as well have said that you have stopped expecting Jews to be selfless, while you yourself have a history of selfishness.

The hypocrisy just doesn't get any more blatant.

Is it any wonder that this forum is starting to make Carm look fair and balanced?

Well your argument above just goes to show one of the reasons why I have stopped expecting you Mormons to be logical. It is incoherent and illogical, just like your doctrines.

[OtherCheek]

Well your argument above just goes to show one of the reasons why I have stopped expecting you Mormons to be logical. It is incoherent and illogical, just like your doctrines.

And you whine about us being snarky?

[Sparko]

And you whine about us being snarky?

where?

[Daniel7:14]

I have to give a big "NO FAIR" out to Sparko and Cow Poke!!! It would seem that you are capable of reading my thoughts! After I read the response to my post, I had every intention of "offering" some insight to that response.

You have definitely beat me to the punch!

However, I would like to add this:

If, as you claim, the prophet holds a higher status than the given word from God, what is the point in becoming a "god". By your own analysis, the higher achievment is to be a prophet, able to change, edit, refute or obliterate the word of God. It is clear to me that your god, whomsoever he may be, is in subjection to the prophet, in the things that he (god) speaks.

So why would your theology present a "position of attainment", in the eternal realm to become a god, when that is less than the positions currently held by your earthbound "prophet". By your own analysis obtaining a "god status" would actually be a digressive position.

You did say that the "prophet" was the accord by which you determine your theology.

You also mentioned that there were 2-3...SIGNIFICANT....revisions, does that mean 1 or 2 items that were changed, or does that mean potentially hundreds?

IF...there have been those changes, and your founding father clearly stated that the(his) original, his received version, was the ...ONLY...true version, what does that make the current version that you rely upon?

Just some thoughts.

Paul said let us "reason" together and it was determined by the Bereans, through the scriptures, that he had spoke the truth to them. The written record encompassing millenia, declaring that Jesus is the Christ, and that salvation is found in him alone, through and by his sacrificial work of atonement.

If your desire is to receive eternal life, then you need a personal relationship with Christ, and to pick up your cross daily and follow him.