Requiring IDs to vote - can't we just stop there?

[Starlight]

So now, Alabama, which requires an ID to vote, is closing driver's licenses bureaus in a number of counties, most of them in the "Black Belt". In many of these counties, there will no longer be a place to get a driver's license. Travel isn't convenient for everybody.

The way they can get this sort of thing past the courts is to make sure no one thing is too onerous in and of itself, otherwise the courts will strike it down for being discriminatory. However, if they can stack up a large number of different things, each of which in and of themselves only makes it 5% harder for the 'wrong people' to vote, and every single thing in the stack can be argued to have a 'good reason' and to not be 'too discriminatory' in and of itself, then they win.

Other common tricks include making sure there's no same-day voter registration, and making sure there's very very few polling booths in the 'wrong' districts and that those booths are woefully understaffed, meaning the voter queue is out the door and down the street and that voters have to wait 3 hours in the line if they want to vote.

[KingsGambit]

Et al. The shortest election cycle is two years - I'm not buying that in a two year period someone who really, really wants to vote won't be in a town with a driver's license office. If they want to vote in the primary, they need to get a move on - it's March 31st and you need to be registered fourteen days before. Hurry! Only five and a half months to go!

Voting is a constitutionally protected right and shouldn't require what could be an onerous effort if somebody "really wants to". Somebody without a vehicle may well not leave their county at all within a certain time period. I'm not buying any claims this isn't politically motivated.

[Psychic Missile]

Voting is a constitutionally protected right and shouldn't require what could be an onerous effort if somebody "really wants to". Somebody without a vehicle may well not leave their county at all within a certain time period. I'm not buying any claims this isn't politically motivated.

Compare the conservative reaction to restrictions on voting to restrictions on gun ownership. It's one thing for politicians to set policy based on what gets them votes, it's another for voters to buy into their rhetoric.

[Teallaura]

Voting is a constitutionally protected right and shouldn't require what could be an onerous effort if somebody "really wants to". Somebody without a vehicle may well not leave their county at all within a certain time period. I'm not buying any claims this isn't politically motivated.

In New Mexico you might have a point but not in Alabama. I dealt with people who had transportation issues my entire career. In the counties where it will be most difficult the same is true for grocery shopping. People don't just stay in one tiny county because they can't. They will have to travel anyway.

It is called 'proration'. The political fight in this case had nothing to do with voter registration and everything to do with the Legislature having to do something in the second freaking Special Session.

[JimL]

In New Mexico you might have a point but not in Alabama. I dealt with people who had transportation issues my entire career. In the counties where it will be most difficult the same is true for grocery shopping. People don't just stay in one tiny county because they can't. They will have to travel anyway.

It is called 'proration'. The political fight in this case had nothing to do with voter registration and everything to do with the Legislature having to do something in the second freaking Special Session.

It seems conservatives will continue to defend the indefensible. No surprise there. First they enact voter ID laws, and then they pass laws making it more difficult to aquire the necessary ID's. And your defense of this is, "Oh well, the legislature, the republican run government of Alabama, had to do something in the special session." Not much of a defense there. BTW, I don't know what proration is supposed to mean in this context, but to prorate means to divide or distribute proportionately. Well, it seems that they managed to distribute proportionately the closing of DMV's alright, proportionately throughtout the so called black belt that is.You have to give it up to republicans though for their corrupt brazenness. This country is really getting embarassing.

[Teallaura]

It seems conservatives will continue to defend the indefensible. No surprise there. First they enact voter ID laws, and then they pass laws making it more difficult to aquire the necessary ID's. And your defense of this is, "Oh well, the legislature, the republican run government of Alabama, had to do something in the special session." Not much of a defense there. BTW, I don't know what proration is supposed to mean in this context, but to prorate means to divide or distribute proportionately. Well, it seems that they managed to distribute proportionately the closing of DMV's alright, proportionately throughtout the so called black belt that is.You have to give it up to republicans though for their corrupt brazenness. This country is really getting embarassing.

Pay attention, please. KG raised two separate points and you act as if the answer to the second was the answer to the first. His point was that the legislature was politically motivated in its action. I agree - BUT the motivation is completely different than KG and you are presuming. That you don't get 'proration' in context is no surprise. I left it vague only to outsiders - no Alabamian would have trouble understanding the implication. Two separate Special Sessions in one year is bad enough - if we go into proration we'll be seeing a lot of new faces on Goat Hill and they all know it. To avoid that you can raise taxes - which would result in all new faces - or cut expenses. Contractor services versus facing constituents angry about a tax increase - it's a no brainer for a legislator.

And look up 'Goat Hill' before you embarrass yourself further.

Also, it's disproportionate, according to the map, on West Alabama, not the BB. The biggest clump of BB counties affected are around Montgomery County which makes them in easy reach of a DMV assuming they actually no longer have one. The numbers don't add up - some of the satellites have to be in multiple office counties.

[JimL]

Pay attention, please. KG raised two separate points and you act as if the answer to the second was the answer to the first. His point was that the legislature was politically motivated in its action. I agree - BUT the motivation is completely different than KG and you are presuming. That you don't get 'proration' in context is no surprise. I left it vague only to outsiders - no Alabamian would have trouble understanding the implication. Two separate Special Sessions in one year is bad enough - if we go into proration we'll be seeing a lot of new faces on Goat Hill and they all know it. To avoid that you can raise taxes - which would result in all new faces - or cut expenses. Contractor services versus facing constituents angry about a tax increase - it's a no brainer for a legislator.

And look up 'Goat Hill' before you embarrass yourself further.

Also, it's disproportionate, according to the map, on West Alabama, not the BB. The biggest clump of BB counties affected are around Montgomery County which makes them in easy reach of a DMV assuming they actually no longer have one. The numbers don't add up - some of the satellites have to be in multiple office counties.

So, on the one hand you admit that it is politically motivated, and then you defend it by claiming that the motives didn't intend the consequences. What do you think, that you're republican reps are stupid. As I said, it's no surprise, conservatives, will always defend the indefensible, even at the expence of democracy tself.

[Teallaura]

All legislative actions are politically motivated to some degree. The question is what is the particular motivator.

What consequences? Some, not all, counties will not have their own DMV - so what? A glance at the map shows to anyone who actually knows Alabama that no one was trying to keep anyone from getting a driver's license - the affected counties aren't clumped enough to make it much of a pain to get to a DMV.

You're deliberately being dense.

[JimL]

All legislative actions are politically motivated to some degree. The question is what is the particular motivator.

What the claimed motivating factor was is irrelevant, just because the intent may not have been to disenfranchise poor and black voters, they have disenfranchised poor and black voters. The counties whose DMV'S were closed, all just happen to be 75% black and vote predominately democratic. Gee, ain't that a coincidence.

What consequences? Some, not all, counties will not have their own DMV - so what? A glance at the map shows to anyone who actually knows Alabama that no one was trying to keep anyone from getting a driver's license - the affected counties aren't clumped enough to make it much of a pain to get to a DMV.

No, they're just trying to make it as difficult as possible for certain people to get ID'S, and then sitting back and hoping they can get away with it.

[Adam]

Et al. The shortest election cycle is two years - I'm not buying that in a two year period someone who really, really wants to vote won't be in a town with a driver's license office. If they want to vote in the primary, they need to get a move on - it's March 31st and you need to be registered fourteen days before. Hurry! Only five and a half months to go!

I appreciate all the detail rationalizing the Alabama vote on voting, but I do feel that your later replies betray a guilty defensiveness. So I'll refrain from giving you an "Amen", but won't go so far the other way that I ask for my Go fund me cash back.

[Teallaura]

I appreciate all the detail rationalizing the Alabama vote on voting, but I do feel that your later replies betray a guilty defensiveness. So I'll refrain from giving you an "Amen", but won't go so far the other way that I ask for my Go fund me cash back.

While I appreciate your gift - very much - I wonder about why you are attaching it to political viewpoints.

I live in Pike county, south of Montgomery. I do not have a car, but I can get to a Greyhound station via what public transportation we do have, and if I really had to, I could get, all by myself, to Montgomery, for a grand total of once ever. That's all that's actually necessary. If I didn't already have a license, I could get to Montgomery all by myself on the part time wages I make and get an ID within the next five months. Would it be a pain? Sure, but I'll need to go for other reasons as well so it would be combined in the one trip - just like everyone else with transportation issues.

Thereafter, renewal can be done through the mail (in between the two mandatory pictures), or at the County Seat (in most counties and the few exceptions seem to be coming on board). You only need a DMV for the driver's testing - not the renewal. So, how, exactly, does this prevent or even seriously inconvenience more than a tiny number of folks - most of whom won't be eligible to vote for two years anyway?

Alabama has a constitutionally required balanced budget - the Legislature doesn't have a choice. They cannot overspend our revenue and after a regular session and two Special Sessions - both of which are expensive - they were up against the wall politically. So yeah, they cut something that could be cut without making the majority of their constituents scream bloody murder. Notice that no mass protests are happening in Alabama at the moment. Why? Because it's not doing any real harm. Satellites, not mains, were shut down. You'll have to drive a bit farther to get Junior to the DMV - but since you have to have your own car for that it's not exactly crippling. The only thing would be the IDs which require four year renewals - instead of eight. That pop is extremely small - most Alabamians drive - but they aren't home bound. The state had to choose something. Satellites, sadly, make the best sense, especially since they accounted for only 5% of the renewals/licenses done in 2014, approximately 2000.

This is what happens when a balanced budget has an 82 million dollar shortfall. Next year, if they do end up shuttering mains then I would agree, assuming no other changes are made to the requirements. But not when all they are closing are satellites (31 out of 78 and we only have 67 counties) and the time frames are ample for people to get their licenses/IDs and still have plenty of time left to register.

The bigger issue is the elderly. It will be much harder to convince some to surrender their licenses if they are unsure they can get IDs. I think a post-licensure ID should be created for that.

But on the bright side (dripping sarcasm here) with 99 fewer highway patrol officers, those who can get licenses won't have to worry as much about speeding tickets. We are already dangerously short of officers and they are doing some really steep layoffs at ALEA - including the cutting of thirteen Trooper posts. These are the cuts people should be mad about, in my opinion.

[Adam]

Well, Teal,
Ya gotta admit that If you were Klaus54 or some such I would not have responded to your Go Fund Me. So you shouldn't be surprised if I had experienced some Buyer's Remorse. Plus the fact that I'm not into much here at TWeb even now beyond Apologetics 301 and now Civics 101, so I still have some problem distinguishing you from Mossrose. I know, I know, she loves to be kidded about how old she is and you're not, but I run into trouble with details. I'm an idea man with the Big Picture and may not remember names and personalities very well.
But don't complain, I "amen'd" your latest and do appreciate you knowing and revealing so much about Alabama. Maybe more than the rest of us want to know, as Alabama competes with Mississippi for.... I'll not embarrass you by continuing.
But I would not be proud about the lack of protests and demonstrations there. To me it indicates that all citizens there are so hopeless about anything good happening in Alabama in the state most run into the ground by the super-rich (except for Texas) who have always controlled this deep-Dixie state. Please enlighten me about anything that might be good about your state (I mean Alabama, though feel free to add in your personal "state").

[Teallaura]

Well, hope you guys are happy. They announced that the satellites will be reopened. That means either raising taxes which in Alabama is usually a sin or sales tax - hurting the very folks that can least afford it - or they will cut something else - and Alabama doesn't exactly have a lot of fluff to begin with.



I'll look into the details later - gotta run now.

[Adam]

Teal,
It is no defense to Alabama that whenever taxes are raised, it is the poor people who pay them!
THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH ALABAMA!
But I know you know that. It's natural that you defend your state. I just hope you are also trying to REFORM your state.

It's ALMOST as bad as Texas!

[Teallaura]

The problem isn't the balanced budget - it's that people expect far more in services than that budget and their pocketbooks can handle. Without the balanced budget, we'd be in far worse straights.

The other problem is a bunch of outsiders seeing racism everywhere - no matter whether or not its real and with no understanding of the internal workings. Alabama has its faults - but crazed racists on Goat Hill isn't one of them. That doesn't even make sense - more than 25% of the state is black and 10 - 12 counties are majority black - which means the Legislature hasn't been a whites only club for decades.

Also, Alabama's tax structure is politically expedient - property taxes are excessively low. But since the one thing white and blue collar workers agree on is not raising any taxes, it's a tough thing to fix.