Can You Suggest Research Resources For...

[JardinPrayer]

I'd like to learn more about a few topics. I'm looking for trusted sources, whether they be websites, books, or other media, to help me form sound opinions and apologetics for these topics. My intention is to collect your suggestions here, print out the thread, and use it for future reference. I'm specifically looking for resources you have personally examined and deemed worthy. I don't want to go wandering all over the internet or the library polluting my brain with fringy apologists or out-and-out loonies, you know? If you would, please tell me why you appreciate the source you're recommending.

Here are the topics I'm interested in:

1) Where do we find the story of Satan being the music director of Heaven and subsequently getting kicked out for aspiring to usurp God?

2) What are our best resources for the rank and file of angels and demons (seraphim, cherubim, devils, demons, etc.) and perhaps even more about specific ones named in the scriptures (Michael, Gabriel, Lucifer, etc.). I'm looking for resources that have really good bibliographies here, or exceptional backup for the claims they make.

3) What are the best sources we have for the lives of the original 12 apostles and what became of them after Christ's ascention? I would like to go beyond what the scriptures tell us, with solid backup for any claims made. I'm interested in the variation between the scriptures for what became of Judas, specifically.

4) What are some good sources for the claim that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

5) Who is "the other disciple, whom Jesus loved?" and why is he not named in the gospel of John?

6) Where do we get the notion of Mary's ascention (akin to Elijah's?) without dying?

7) What's a good resource for understanding the debate about whether there is a hell where the unsaved are tortured for eternity and the notion that the "second death" is an event that results in those same souls simply ceasing to exist where those whom Jesus finds acceptable experience eternal life?

If you would, please indicate the item number you're recommending a resource for when you post.

That oughta keep you off the streets and out of trouble for a while!

Oh, and thanks!

[ForHimAlone]

I'd like to learn more about a few topics. I'm looking for trusted sources, whether they be websites, books, or other media, to help me form sound opinions and apologetics for these topics. My intention is to collect your suggestions here, print out the thread, and use it for future reference. I'm specifically looking for resources you have personally examined and deemed worthy. I don't want to go wandering all over the internet or the library polluting my brain with fringy apologists or out-and-out loonies, you know? If you would, please tell me why you appreciate the source you're recommending.

Here are the topics I'm interested in:

1) Where do we find the story of Satan being the music director of Heaven and subsequently getting kicked out for aspiring to usurp God?

2) What are our best resources for the rank and file of angels and demons (seraphim, cherubim, devils, demons, etc.) and perhaps even more about specific ones named in the scriptures (Michael, Gabriel, Lucifer, etc.). I'm looking for resources that have really good bibliographies here, or exceptional backup for the claims they make.

3) What are the best sources we have for the lives of the original 12 apostles and what became of them after Christ's ascention? I would like to go beyond what the scriptures tell us, with solid backup for any claims made. I'm interested in the variation between the scriptures for what became of Judas, specifically.

4) What are some good sources for the claim that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

5) Who is "the other disciple, whom Jesus loved?" and why is he not named in the gospel of John?

6) Where do we get the notion of Mary's ascention (akin to Elijah's?) without dying?

7) What's a good resource for understanding the debate about whether there is a hell where the unsaved are tortured for eternity and the notion that the "second death" is an event that results in those same souls simply ceasing to exist where those whom Jesus finds acceptable experience eternal life?

If you would, please indicate the item number you're recommending a resource for when you post.

That oughta keep you off the streets and out of trouble for a while!

Oh, and thanks!

Hello. Yes there are a lot of questions here, to be sure.

For #3 - http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ad.php?t=83978

Cut and paste (don't know how to do hypertext links yet); again, Dr. Clarke and Barnes, among others, have harmonized what happened to Judas to reconcile the apparently contradictory testimonies concerning the betrayer's fate.


#5 The "other disciple" is by most believed to have been John, the same who wrote the Gospel of John, epistles and Apoc., but does not so designate himself by name out of humility and honor for his lord. But most attribute John was the one who leaned on Christ's bosom while they sat at the last Passover Christ would have with the disciples before his passion.

#7 There is a book out called "Four Views on Hell" available from CBD which isn't terribly expensive and in fact, many Christian book sellers should stock it. While I haven't personally read it I am sure that among the views offered the orthodox position is championed.

#4 The text is the easiest, most direct source: Mk. 6.3; Mt. 13.55

#1 This is suggested by Ezekiel 28.13 "Tabrets and pipes." That he was the musical director of heaven I am not certain but this is perhaps a midrash (interpretation on the Talmud) or in the Babylonian Talmud itself. Talmud is rabbinical commentary on the OT.

#2 Angelology is, I have heard, also worked out in some detail in the BT (Babylonian Talmud). See Dr. Clarke; Dr. Barnes' Commentaries as well. Use a concordance and look up 'archangel' or 'Gabriel' or 'Michael' for corresponding texts and then seek the comments on them out from these men. You may also see John Gill's comments on them. If I remember the angels are classed according to rank and power. The NT has several scattered citations where angels appear, as the OT, but without much elaboration as to rank, file, station, etc.

Angel of Jehovah - Pre-incarnate Christ or Jehovah's Angel or the Angel of Jehovah's Presence
Archangels - highest ranking of the regular (as if they were common) angels
Cherubs - Those cute, chubby guys (Satan was supposedly one of these...not so cuddly sounding anymore, huh? )
Seraphim- Six winged
Angels - Foot Soldiers

Demons likewise are discussed as having "rank". I have not heard all the orders of them, however, and know only of Satan/the Devil, who is one, and the leader of the infernal hosts, and demons, fallen angels.I have heard the term "imps" used to describe a hellish footsoldier, although I cannot ascertain what these hellish creatures are suppose to be or what their rank is.

I imagine a well-stocked metaphysical bookseller would have plenty of books on the occult which would give you resources to examine for the classification and ranks of both angelic and demonic beings. Check B&N booksellers as well. You can browse and scour and not have to shell out any hard-earned greenbacks.

#6 The ascension of Mary is a fiction the genesis of which, IIRC, derives from a Pope but can't recall which one off the top of my head.

From memory and on short notice that's the best I can muster at the moment.

Bless you,
FHA

[mossrose]

Lynn, the essay that I did on angels and demons might help with the first 2, although I have never heard Satan called the Music Director of heaven. But that is just me.

Do you still have what I sent you? If not, the whole thing is posted here on Tweb somewhere, and I will try to find it for you.

[JardinPrayer]

Lynn, the essay that I did on angels and demons might help with the first 2, although I have never heard Satan called the Music Director of heaven. But that is just me.

Do you still have what I sent you? If not, the whole thing is posted here on Tweb somewhere, and I will try to find it for you.

Yes, dear sister, I do still have it. In fact, that is one of the things I had in mind when I created this thread. I was grateful there was a trustworthy resource sitting right on my hard drive to get me started. While circumstances prevented me from reading it when you sent it, I believe now is God's time. So, expect some feedback from that soon!

FHA...THANK YOU! I appreciate your comments. I also saw your other thread on the apostles just after I created this thread and subscribed to it so I can find it easily later. I would love your bibliograpy on that research, or whatever parts of it you think might be helpful to me in this quest.

For the record, I recognize Mary's ascention as fiction, and was simply interested in the history of how it became so widely accepted, primarily in the Catholic church.

Is there a good Talmud website like our crosswalk.com that can be cross-referenced with study tools on the web?

More specific sources and references would be appreciated!

[mossrose]

Yes, dear sister, I do still have it. In fact, that is one of the things I had in mind when I created this thread. I was grateful there was a trustworthy resource sitting right on my hard drive to get me started. While circumstances prevented me from reading it when you sent it, I believe now is God's time. So, expect some feedback from that soon!

[Abelard]

The fall of Satan is from 1 Enoch, but I don't think he was the Music Director from Hell. That guy works for my church.

[JardinPrayer]

The fall of Satan is from 1 Enoch, but I don't think he was the Music Director from Hell.

I saw the fall of Azazael in the Wiki description of 1 Enoch, but not Satan mentioned by name.

I had always heard the story that Satan was Lucifer, choir director to the angels who started telling everyone he was greater than God and would one day take his place. For this reason, he was cast down (fallen) and given the name Satan at that point. Does anyone know where that comes from?

That guy works for my church.