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So...what we think of as Radical Islam is really just normal?

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  • So...what we think of as Radical Islam is really just normal?

    In this video, an Imam explains that death for homosexuals and adulterers, cutting of limbs, in short Sharia Law, is what EVERY Muslim believes...they just don't announce it. I wonder if this is really true for the majority of Muslims?

    http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/02/13...d-horrify-you/
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

  • #2
    I think it's a mistake to fixate on death sentences for those crimes as barbaric, because Leviticus has similar sentences and the argument will boomerang back on the Christian.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I think it's a mistake to fixate on death sentences for those crimes as barbaric, because Leviticus has similar sentences and the argument will boomerang back on the Christian.
      I agree, but this Imam has a "normal" crowd show hands for support of this and it's near unanimous...It's not me saying it, it's them.
      "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

      "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

      Comment


      • #4
        I've been saying for awhile that extremist Muslims appear to be doing what the majority of Muslims believe in.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I think it's a mistake to fixate on death sentences for those crimes as barbaric, because Leviticus has similar sentences and the argument will boomerang back on the Christian.
          Arguably, post-Christ, those punishments for those crimes is barbaric. Christ is the great dividing line. Before Jesus, God limited his mercy, and granted it with strict conditions. Not because God is unmerciful, but because our sin is so great. After Jesus, and especially upon his death for our sin on the cross and his resurrection, God was able to express his mercy to all with the only condition that we repent of our sins, and make Christ lord. Jesus prepared this way by doing things like preaching about the spirit of the law against lex talionis, and by offering mercy to the woman caught in adultery.

          Basically what I'm getting at is these Sharia type religious laws may have been righteous to some degree within the context of the ancient pre-Christ world, but upon Christ's advent they are theologically outmoded. Through Jesus, there is another way, and a better way.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            I've been saying for awhile that extremist Muslims appear to be doing what the majority of Muslims believe in.
            Which begs the question: Is it Islamophobic to view Muslims according to the standard set by their own holy works and juridical interpretations thereof?
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
              In this video, an Imam explains that death for homosexuals and adulterers, cutting of limbs, in short Sharia Law, is what EVERY Muslim believes...they just don't announce it. I wonder if this is really true for the majority of Muslims?

              http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/02/13...d-horrify-you/
              Seems to me the best way of figuring this is out is to look at the nations with the largest percentage of Muslim populations, and then seeing how many of them enforce Sharia Law.

              The following maps shows where Sharia law may be recognized.



              Key:
              Purple - Sharia applies in full, covering personal status issues as well as criminal proceedings
              Yellow - Sharia applies in personal status issues (such as marriage, divorce, inheritance, and child custody)
              Orange - Regional variations in the application of Sharia
              Green - No Application

              A quick Google search indicates that the following 10 nations have the largest numbers of Muslims (Pew Research Center report of The Future of the Global Muslim Population, 2011):

              Indonesia - Regional
              Pakistan - Full
              India - Personal
              Bangladesh - Personal
              Egypt - Personal
              Nigeria - Regional
              Iran - Full
              Turkey - No Application
              Algeria - Personal
              Morocco - Personal


              But, perhaps more importantly, the following 10 nations have the highest percentage of Muslims :

              Morocco - Personal
              Afghanistan - Full
              Tunisia - No Application
              Iran - Full
              Western Sahara - no data/not applicable
              Mauritania - Full
              Yemen - Full
              Tajikistan - No Application
              Iraq - Full
              Jordan - Personal

              So, A pretty mixed bag really.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I think it's a mistake to fixate on death sentences for those crimes as barbaric, because Leviticus has similar sentences and the argument will boomerang back on the Christian.
                To be more credible, I think it would be good to seeing how most or some Jews and Christians deal with these parts of Scripture and compare this with most or some Muslims deal with comparable religious texts. I think we would find a fair degree of agreement among similar approaches within all three religions.
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                  Arguably, post-Christ, those punishments for those crimes is barbaric. Christ is the great dividing line. Before Jesus, God limited his mercy, and granted it with strict conditions. Not because God is unmerciful, but because our sin is so great. After Jesus, and especially upon his death for our sin on the cross and his resurrection, God was able to express his mercy to all with the only condition that we repent of our sins, and make Christ lord. Jesus prepared this way by doing things like preaching about the spirit of the law against lex talionis, and by offering mercy to the woman caught in adultery.

                  Basically what I'm getting at is these Sharia type religious laws may have been righteous to some degree within the context of the ancient pre-Christ world, but upon Christ's advent they are theologically outmoded. Through Jesus, there is another way, and a better way.
                  Grace
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We are all human beings---it may seem "they" are bad/barbaric and "we" are good/civilized...but such an outlook ignores the fact that all humanity have similar flaws and therefore make similar errors....

                    1904-1908 the Germans decapitated the Hero and Nama peoples of Africa----and took back these heads to Europe for "study"

                    1885-1908---Leopold the Butcher of the Congo--cut off hands and killed ---by some estimates 10 million peoples----in his ironically named Congo Free State....

                    ....and do I need to mention Canon law and inquisitions...?.....


                    And in case this is not enough----there is the U.S. torture report---the horrifying and grisly methods the U.S. "legally" uses.....
                    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...erboard-rectal


                    So ---as "Humane" beings ---we have to ask ourselves...what is the purpose of Law and Justice and What is it that makes a "law" just or unjust?

                    Micheal Sandel of Harvard asks this question and explores the responses in his series of lectures "what is the right thing to do" from a Western perspective....
                    http://www.justiceharvard.org/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      IMO, there are 2 basic features/principles that are pre-requisites in making a "law" just...
                      1) Equality (All humanity is of equivalent worth--without this principle, injustice will prevail))
                      2) Compassion and Mercy (Any system of human organization/rules without the principles of compassion and mercy will lead to oppression)

                      Law should secure benefits for humanity and remove harm through a system that promotes an ethical/moral society by emphasizing rights and responsibilities of individuals and groups....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by siam View Post
                        We are all human beings---it may seem "they" are bad/barbaric and "we" are good/civilized...but such an outlook ignores the fact that all humanity have similar flaws and therefore make similar errors....

                        1904-1908 the Germans decapitated the Hero and Nama peoples of Africa----and took back these heads to Europe for "study"

                        1885-1908---Leopold the Butcher of the Congo--cut off hands and killed ---by some estimates 10 million peoples----in his ironically named Congo Free State....

                        ....and do I need to mention Canon law and inquisitions...?.....
                        What the Germans and Belgians did in Africa was not done in the name of Christianity. And the tortures inflicted by the Inquisition ended centuries ago (interestingly those who faced the Inquisition could expect far more humane treatment than those facing secular courts causing many to confess to blasphemy and heresy in hopes of being turned over to them).

                        OTOH Muslims today are using their religion to fully justify atrocities and proclaiming that Allah will reward them for doing so.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          What the Germans and Belgians did in Africa was not done in the name of Christianity. And the tortures inflicted by the Inquisition ended centuries ago (interestingly those who faced the Inquisition could expect far more humane treatment than those facing secular courts causing many to confess to blasphemy and heresy in hopes of being turned over to them).

                          OTOH Muslims today are using their religion to fully justify atrocities and proclaiming that Allah will reward them for doing so.
                          Yeah, that was a very scattershot approach to "well non-Muslims do bad things too"! Very odd too. Why would you choose decapitating Africans (were they alive when they did that) instead of the Holocaust?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            Seems to me the best way of figuring this is out is to look at the nations with the largest percentage of Muslim populations, and then seeing how many of them enforce Sharia Law.

                            The following maps shows where Sharia law may be recognized.



                            Key:
                            Purple - Sharia applies in full, covering personal status issues as well as criminal proceedings
                            Yellow - Sharia applies in personal status issues (such as marriage, divorce, inheritance, and child custody)
                            Orange - Regional variations in the application of Sharia
                            Green - No Application

                            A quick Google search indicates that the following 10 nations have the largest numbers of Muslims (Pew Research Center report of The Future of the Global Muslim Population, 2011):

                            Indonesia - Regional
                            Pakistan - Full
                            India - Personal
                            Bangladesh - Personal
                            Egypt - Personal
                            Nigeria - Regional
                            Iran - Full
                            Turkey - No Application
                            Algeria - Personal
                            Morocco - Personal


                            But, perhaps more importantly, the following 10 nations have the highest percentage of Muslims :

                            Morocco - Personal
                            Afghanistan - Full
                            Tunisia - No Application
                            Iran - Full
                            Western Sahara - no data/not applicable
                            Mauritania - Full
                            Yemen - Full
                            Tajikistan - No Application
                            Iraq - Full
                            Jordan - Personal

                            So, A pretty mixed bag really.
                            Colors!
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Colors!
                              Darn. I thought that would make it easier for people to read/understand.

                              Comment

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