Are Christmas Trees OK?

[Soyeong]

I was talking with a friend earlier today about holiday origins when we got to talking about Christmas. She quoted:

Jeremiah 10:2-4

This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.

as saying that Christmas trees are of pagan origin, so we shouldn’t have them. Furthermore, it seems like almost every major Christian holiday has at least part of its roots from a pagan holiday. For example, the name Easter stems from the goddess Ishtar. However, the Bible makes it clear that we should not follow pagan traditions. I’ve heard that Easter was introduced in conjunction with a pagan holiday so that they would be more willing accept Christianity into their culture. I think doing things like that might have been a mistake, because to this day, we are still defending Christmas as being about Jesus. We seem to be losing that battle since it has pretty much been fully commercialized.

The friend I was talking to said they no longer celebrate Christmas. The Bible never records a celebration of Jesus’ birthday, nor does it tell us to celebrate it. It was also unlikely that Jesus was born in the winter. And if it was a celebration of Jesus’ birthday, then why do we give gifts to each other instead of to Jesus? However, Jesus doesn’t need any gifts from us. If we take that to mean we should do a good deed, then why should we wait until Christmas to do it?

I’ve celebrated Christmas every year I’ve been alive, so it is hard for me to see Christmas as being a bad thing to celebrate. All of history revolves the birth and death of Jesus, so it doesn’t seem like it would that bad of an idea to celebrate those dates. However, Paul says:

Galatians 4:10-11

You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

So maybe it is something that we should not be doing…what do you guys think?

[James Peter]

Jeremiah is not talking about Christmas Trees there but instead about idols crafted out of wood. You really can't take that particular verse as a condemnation of christmas trees. The Galatians verse similarly is really ignoring its context. It is part of a condemnation of observing the Jewish Law and of thinking that doing so is salvific. If people were thinking that they had to observe Passover or Pentecost and that not doing so would mean they were 'not saved' then there would be a serious problem. There is quite a distinction between choosing to commemorate an event on a particular day and the sort of observance that Paul is condemning.

Personally I have some problems with both Easter (we celebrate it on the wrong day! We really shouldn't follow Rome when she is clearly wrong) and Christmas (I think the way we try and harmonise everything into a 'Christmas Story' is flawed) but I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with choosing to mark these events.

Of course the early Church didn't mark these events because festivals in the ancient world were not something that a small group would have the power or means to institute. They'd still have had to work from dawn until dusk and so in many ways choosing to mark it on a day when they already did not have to work was simply a matter of convenience. Liturgically having all your festivals in a short period (Epiphany in January, Christmas is March, Pascha in March/April, Pentecost in April/May) just doesn't make much sense.

As the commemoration of the three major Christian 'feasts' is far older than the current canon I'd say we are on sound grounds in choosing to observe them. The New Testament really isn't a manual on Christian Life. It is a collection of texts, many of which are highly contextual, which give us an insight and connection to the earliest believers but it is far from comprehensive and much of it simply assumes its social context. We're in no position to reinstitute the Greco-Roman world and so simply must choose whether we think having the excuse of Christmas to preach the gospel to people who are more receptive and to encourage families to spend time together is better than not having those things. If observance of christmas becomes a legalistic thing then there may be a problem but intrinsically there is nothing wrong with it and adopting (and adapting) symbols is something that every new group does (and can be seen in both the OT and NT)

[Pilgrim]

Hang on now, its not time for that question yet. We havn't had the typcial "You're going to hell if you have anything to do with Halloween" crazyness this year. Honestly, what is it with this culture that it keeps rushing to make Christmas earlier every year.

[Jedidiah]

Hang on now, its not time for that question yet. We havn't had the typcial "You're going to hell if you have anything to do with Halloween" crazyness this year. Honestly, what is it with this culture that it keeps rushing to make Christmas earlier every year.

You're going to hell if you have anything to do with Halloween.

Okay, on with the Christmas discussion.

[Soyeong]

Jeremiah is not talking about Christmas Trees there but instead about idols crafted out of wood. You really can't take that particular verse as a condemnation of christmas trees. The Galatians verse similarly is really ignoring its context. It is part of a condemnation of observing the Jewish Law and of thinking that doing so is salvific. If people were thinking that they had to observe Passover or Pentecost and that not doing so would mean they were 'not saved' then there would be a serious problem. There is quite a distinction between choosing to commemorate an event on a particular day and the sort of observance that Paul is condemning.

Jeremiah is not directly referring to Christmas trees, but I still think the tradition it describes could have played a role in the origin of what we do today. When you think about it, they sound similar…cutting a tree down, decorating it, placing a star on top, placing presents underneath, gathering around, etc. Then there is the whole lying to your children about Santa Clause thing. When they grow up, should they not be confused that Santa is fake, but Jesus is still real? I guess traditions are mostly those silly things that people keep on doing every year, but no one can explain why. I still think a healthy look at why we do certain things from time to time is a good idea.

Hang on now, its not time for that question yet. We havn't had the typcial "You're going to hell if you have anything to do with Halloween" crazyness this year. Honestly, what is it with this culture that it keeps rushing to make Christmas earlier every year.

Well, Halloween was the first holiday we discussed. And if you have her opinion on Christmas, then you can guess about Halloween. It didn’t get to the point of anyone going to hell, but it still was a reminder to we should think about what we’re really doing.

[Trout]

Soyeong,

There are many fine Christian people I know who choose not to have a Christmas tree as part of their holiday celebrations. Those that choose not to do so to set themselves apart from the world, for the Glory of God. They have made the stand in their homes and have done so to please God, I think it's a wonderful idea.

There are also many Christians who choose to make the tree a part of the celebration of Christmas, myself included. I do so to Glorify God and honor Him. Each morning as I walk down the staircase and see my tree decorated and lit, I praise God that He sent His Son to pay a debt that I could not. I find no Biblical mandate warning us to steer clear of a Christmas tree, but I do feel we must resist the temptation to bring a legalistic view of the tree into our lives and make those around us feel guilty for the choice they themselves make.

As far as the tree's pagan origin . . . I always have to remember . . . my pagan origin.

[Rusty T]

Only fake Christmas trees are of the devil. Real trees make your house smell nice - nothing like fire and brimstone.

rusty

[Xmansmommy]

I personally have struggled with celebrating Christmas ever since I became a Christian. Not necessarily because of the Christmas tree per se but because of the commercialism that has so come to define it. Over the last few years as my views have been changing on the issue of celebrating holidays I've become much less interested and my family has noticed. I have caught alot of slack over it especially from my brother who feels the need to defend his view while challenging mine.

He makes his dissatisfaction with my choices well known. Today for example, he gave me a birthday card which said, "Birthdays are little reminders from God that they are meant to be celebrated." His way of letting me know once again that he's not pleased with my decision not to make a big deal out of one day over another. That makes discussing these issues with him nearly impossible.

Trout, I applaud you for your willingness to celebrate as you see fit as well as allowing others the liberty and freedom to choose for themselves.

[James Peter]

Jeremiah is not directly referring to Christmas trees, but I still think the tradition it describes could have played a role in the origin of what we do today. When you think about it, they sound similar…cutting a tree down, decorating it, placing a star on top, placing presents underneath, gathering around, etc. Then there is the whole lying to your children about Santa Clause thing. When they grow up, should they not be confused that Santa is fake, but Jesus is still real? I guess traditions are mostly those silly things that people keep on doing every year, but no one can explain why. I still think a healthy look at why we do certain things from time to time is a good idea.

Of course there is no evidence that German 'pagan' practices were influenced by Babylonian ones and there are significant differences between what the germanic tribes did and what Jeremiah is condemning. Beyond the fact that both involve trees and some form of idolatry there is no direct connection. The sort of similarities you are describing are like me saying that assembling for Church is wrong because it is like what pagans used to do. I mean you go to a particular place, sing some songs, perform some ritual and so on... A superficial similarity is not enough, you'd need to demonstrate direct links. Or that modern christmas trees are treated like idols. I've never seen anyone even remotely worship a Christmas tree.

Now, the Santa thing is a whole other issue as is the over commercialisation of Christmas. I'm not saying that we shouldn't examine what we do, I'm just saying that we shouldn't think there are links where there aren't. There is a world of difference between taking an evergreen as a symbol of life and decorating it with lights (and other sparkly things) and between carving an idol out of wood and worshiping it.

[Berean Todd]

Since no one has yet pointed it out, Christmas trees are not of pagan origin. They come from late-medieval/rennasaince German Christians. They had two habbits - they took evergreen trees and decorated them with apples to symbolize the tree of life from the Bible. They used this as a reminder of God. They also had triangular-shapped boxes with shelves in it that they hung on their walls. On the shelves in this box they would place small figures of the nativity and such. Eventually the two traditions became combined, and there you have the origin of the Christmas tree.

By the way the passage from Jeremiah was referring to wooden idols that were being made and has no resemblence to nor application to modern Christmas trees. Yes, commericialism of the holidays is bad and something we must overcome, but the issue of the tree is a non-issue.

[James Peter]

I'm pretty sure Berean that the practice of adorning evergreens is far older than that and can be traced back at least to the first few centuries of the common era.

[Berean Todd]

There have been other traditions of trees, sure, but there is no link between the Christmas tree and them. This is from Wikipedia:

The modern custom, however, although likely related, cannot be proven to be directly descended from pagan tradition. It can be traced to 16th century Germany; Ingeborg Weber-Keller (Marburg professor of European ethnology) identified as the earliest reference a Bremen guild chronicle of 1570 which reports how a small fir was decorated with apples, nuts, dates, pretzels and paper flowers, and erected in the guild-house, for the benefit of the guild members' children, who collected the dainties on Christmas day. Another early reference is from Basel, where the taylor apprentices carried around town a tree decorated with apples and cheese in 1597. The city of Riga, Latvia claims to be home of the first holiday tree, an octagonal plaque in the town square reads "The First New Years Tree in Riga in 1510", in eight different languages. During the 17th century, the custom entered family homes. One Strasbourg priest, Johann Konrad Dannerhauer, complains about the custom as distracting from the word of God. By the early 18th century, the custom had become common in towns of the upper Rhineland, but it had not yet spread to rural areas. Wax candles are attested from the late 18th century. The Christmas tree remained confined to the upper Rhineland for a relatively long time. It was regarded as a Protestant custom by the Catholic majority along the lower Rhine, and was spread there only by Prussian officials who were moved there in the wake of the Congress of Vienna in 1815. In the early 19th century, the custom became popular among the nobility and spread to royal courts as far as Russia. Princess Henrietta von Nassau-Weilburg introduced the Christmas tree to Vienna in 1816, and the custom spread across Austria in the following years. In France, the first Christmas tree was introduced in 1840 by the duchess of Orleans.

[Vigilante]

There have been other traditions of trees, sure, but there is no link between the Christmas tree and them. This is from Wikipedia:

If you strip Christmas of all its lies and treat it for what it is, and use it as a teaching tool for your kids and ministry, I don't see the problem.

However, this idea of "the Christman spirit" should be an everyday thing. Helping people, giving gifts, family time, study of Christ's life etc...
So knock off the idea of Santa and elves and pretending you aren't the one who gave the gifts. Knock off saying it was Jesus' birthday, when we don't know WHEN that was. Teach the story, but not it was THIS day.
There may not be a direct connection between Christmas and pagan holidays, but then again, it didn't just pop into being either. It came about as adaptations from previous festivals and traditions etc...
The bible doesn't tell us when Christ was born, nor what he looked like. We don't have the Arc of the Covenant, the original 10 commandments, original manuscripts. I think God planned it this way so we WOULDN'T go out and worship these things.
But at the same time, that doesn't mean those things aren't worth remembering, as long as it is done in a way to bring glory to God. Imagine if we DID have an image of Christ, a painting of old perhaps. I can imaging fire and incents, burning candles and neeling in front of the image a la budda style if we had such a thing.

As far as my history....
Our family celebrated, with tree and stockings and all. Then they stopped cold as my parents succumbed to conspiracy. I myself have reservations, and will probably celebrate it IN TERMS of being a traditional American holiday, and for its teaching and family aspects. But I'm not going to pretend this holiday is what it isn't.
Plus it's just so darn fun for kids!

[Soyeong]

At this point, I’ve heard about four or five separate origin stories for the Christmas tree. The only reason I brought up the passage in Jeremiah was that it sounded similar, but I guess it could be referring to something else. I’m beginning to think that the origin will be one of those things that we will never know for certain. In my opinion, it is most likely a combination of them with people bringing in Christmas trees for different reasons that eventually all got lost in tradition.

I agree with Vigilante about how Christmas should be treated. It is important not to get caught up in a tradition of repeating lies. However, some traditions can be very meaningful. I was at a Passover Seder last year and we had a speaker who claimed that many Jewish people, without realizing it, perform a tradition that referred to the Jesus as Messiah. The few Jewish people I’ve talked to about that strongly disagreed with, but again I think it is one of those things that we will probably never know for certain. On one hand, I think traditions only have the meaning that we give them. On the other hand, I think we should avoid giving new meanings to old traditions, especially if they disagree with each other. Jesus was in the business of rewriting traditions, but I think God is entitled to do that.

[Dracula Girl]

Honestly, what is it with this culture that it keeps rushing to make Christmas earlier every year.

Commercialism and capitalism.