Self defense - and James 5:6

[KingsGambit]

Steve Gregg has an interesting and balanced write-up on the ethics of self defense here: http://www.thenarrowpath.com/ta_resistance.php

I have held to the position that self defense to save one's life does not violate the gist of the Sermon on the Mount because Jesus spoke of issues of personal offense, insult and inconvenience, and not of actual danger. However, Gregg points out that early Christians did seem to interpret this to even include personal injury. He cites James 5:6 as one such example (noting that the NIV translation obscures the meaning). He also cited some early church fathers, though I am not sure how representative they are of all Christian thought at the time on the issue. (Gregg does believe it is acceptable to personally defend others who are being attacked.)

It seems unclear to me what James 5:6 is actually referring to. It could even refer to the death of Jesus. What do you all think?

(This is not intended to be a post about pacifism and the ethics of war in general. They are separate issues. In fact, my understanding is that some early Christians believed that war was justifiable for the Christian but not personal self defense.)

[KingsGambit]

Also, before anybody brings it up, I don't think that Jesus telling his disciples to buy swords settles the issue. There is a strong argument that the reason they were bought was not for self defense but to precipitate the arrest of Jesus.

[One Bad Pig]

Source: James 5:6 NRSV

You have condemned and murdered the righteous one, who does not resist you.

© Copyright Original Source

My Jewish Annotated New Testament provides this cross-reference:

Source: Wisd. 2:10-20

¹⁰ Let us oppress the righteous poor man; let us not spare the widow or regard the gray hairs of the aged. ¹¹ But let our might be our law of right, for what is weak proves itself to be useless. ¹²¹³ He professes to have knowledge of God, and calls himself a child of the Lord. ¹⁴ He became to us a reproof of our thoughts; ¹⁵ the very sight of him is a burden to us,
because his manner of life is unlike that of others, and his ways are strange. ¹⁶ We are considered by him as something base, and he avoids our ways as unclean; he calls the last end of the righteous happy, and boasts that God is his father. ¹⁷ Let us see if his words are true, and let us test what will happen at the end of his life; ¹⁸¹⁹ Let us test him with insult and torture, so that we may find out how gentle he is, and make trial of his forbearance. ²⁰

© Copyright Original Source

The text is speaking of the ungodly, whereas James is speaking of the [ungodly] rich. I think, however, that it is closer to the intent of James than the idea that he is saying that the righteous do not resist the ungodly. AFAICS, that the righteous do not resist in this scenario is in no way intended to imply that the righteous should not resist; the fact that the righteous do not resist in the text merely intensifies the wrongdoing of the rich.

[KingsGambit]

The text is speaking of the ungodly, whereas James is speaking of the [ungodly] rich. I think, however, that it is closer to the intent of James than the idea that he is saying that the righteous do not resist the ungodly. AFAICS, that the righteous do not resist in this scenario is in no way intended to imply that the righteous should not resist; the fact that the righteous do not resist in the text merely intensifies the wrongdoing of the rich.

This reference is very helpful; thanks.

[Cow Poke]

[mikewhitney]

The New Testament testifies to many troubles in Judea and the broader Roman Empire. So it seems that certain rich people wielded much power -- even over people's lives. One example of a wrongful killing was that of Stephen. It seems the rulers didn't pay much attention. Also, if someone was not at least of Roman citizenship (or higher status), there was very little concern by the rulers about doing any investigation who the murderer was.

Thus James could be talking about the general reputation of rich people or could even be talking about what some rich people did, among his recipients, before they became Christians. (In James 2 there also seemed to be a tendency to give special honor to the rich. James was quite adamant against such behavior.)

[John Reece]

Also, before anybody brings it up, I don't think that Jesus telling his disciples to buy swords settles the issue. There is a strong argument that the reason they were bought was not for self defense but to precipitate the arrest of Jesus.

I would like to see the "strong argument".

[John Reece]

Also, before anybody brings it up, I don't think that Jesus telling his disciples to buy swords settles the issue. There is a strong argument that the reason they were bought was not for self defense but to precipitate the arrest of Jesus.

Representing the consensus of a number of exegetical scholars of the Greek New Testament, from Luke 9:51― 24:53 (Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament, VOLUME 2: Baker Academic, 1996), by Darrel L. Bock (via Accordance)

22:36.alla nyn, but now) indicates that a change has come. Rather than leaving behind purse, bag, and sword, they are now to take such items. They will now have to provide for themselves. Those who have extra clothes (ἱμάτιον, himationho echōn, the one who has) to ὁ μὴ ἔχων (ho mē echōnballantionpēranmachaira22:38.machairai) refers to the swords that men frequently wore (hikanon estin

[theophilus]

Also, before anybody brings it up, I don't think that Jesus telling his disciples to buy swords settles the issue. There is a strong argument that the reason they were bought was not for self defense but to precipitate the arrest of Jesus.

How could that be? The arrest took place before the disciples had the opportunity to carry out the command. Here is another explanation:

https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/20...e-other-cheek/

The meaning of James 5:6 is clearer if you read it in context:

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the righteous person. He does not resist you.
(James 5:1-6 ESV)