Liberals Introduce Plan for Gun Safety - Similar to Safe Sex

[Cow Poke]

Liberals oppose Abstinence Programs in sex education because, they reason, kids are going to have sex anyway, so we might as well tell them how to do it safely - use condoms, etc.

It just stands to reason that, since people (and even kids) are going to get hold of guns anyway, they'll have "gun safety" classes.

Here is a summary of their proposals for gun safety:

[Sam]

Liberals oppose Abstinence Programs in sex education because, they reason, kids are going to have sex anyway, so we might as well tell them how to do it safely - use condoms, etc.

It just stands to reason that, since people (and even kids) are going to get hold of guns anyway, they'll have "gun safety" classes.

Here is a summary of their proposals for gun safety:

Well, this is embarrassing.

Source: SUMMARY: PRESIDENT OBAMA'S GUN-CONTROL PROPOSALS. NCSL.org. 2013

• Provides states with monetary incentives—$20 million in fiscal year FY 2013 and a proposed $50 million in FY 2014—to share information so that records on criminal history and people prohibited from gun ownership due to mental health reasons are more available.

...

• Provides training for “active shooter” situations to 14,000 law enforcement, first responders and school officials.

...

• Launches a national gun safety campaign to encourage responsible gun ownership and authorizes the Consumer Product Safety Commission to examine issues relating to gun safety locks.

• Helps schools invest in safety. The president’s plan calls for more school resource officers and counselors in all schools through the Community Oriented Policing Services hiring program. The plan also calls for the federal government to assist schools in developing emergency management plans.

• Improves mental health awareness through enhanced teacher training and referrals for treatment. The plan calls for the training of 5,000 additional mental health professionals nationwide. The plan also calls for coverage of mental health treatment under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008.

© Copyright Original Source

Seems like you need to bone up on those liberal gun safety proposals.

[lilpixieofterror]

Well, this is embarrassing.

Source: SUMMARY: PRESIDENT OBAMA'S GUN-CONTROL PROPOSALS. NCSL.org. 2013

• Provides states with monetary incentives—$20 million in fiscal year FY 2013 and a proposed $50 million in FY 2014—to share information so that records on criminal history and people prohibited from gun ownership due to mental health reasons are more available.

...

• Provides training for “active shooter” situations to 14,000 law enforcement, first responders and school officials.

...

• Launches a national gun safety campaign to encourage responsible gun ownership and authorizes the Consumer Product Safety Commission to examine issues relating to gun safety locks.

• Helps schools invest in safety. The president’s plan calls for more school resource officers and counselors in all schools through the Community Oriented Policing Services hiring program. The plan also calls for the federal government to assist schools in developing emergency management plans.

• Improves mental health awareness through enhanced teacher training and referrals for treatment. The plan calls for the training of 5,000 additional mental health professionals nationwide. The plan also calls for coverage of mental health treatment under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008.

© Copyright Original Source

Seems like you need to bone up on those liberal gun safety proposals.

How do you plan on implementing them there Sam, or do you want to continue to say stupid things like how you want to get rid of the 2nd amendment? Let's take number 1 for an example:

"Provides states with monetary incentives—$20 million in fiscal year FY 2013 and a proposed $50 million in FY 2014—to share information so that records on criminal history and people prohibited from gun ownership due to mental health reasons are more available."

So, how are they suppose to share information on mental health records, when there's actually laws against sharing private medical information to start with? Also, what would you consider being a 'mental health reason' to not allow somebody to buy or have a gun? Likewise, 20 million is a drop in the bucket because you'd need quite a few records and access to tons of data to truly make an effective data management system. Now, how do you plan on making this actually work?

[Cow Poke]

Seems like you need to bone up on those liberal gun safety proposals.

Where are they actually working, Sam? Are they SECRET programs? I was specifically referring to teaching gun safety in schools like "safe sex" is taught.

[Sam]

Where are they actually working, Sam? Are they SECRET programs? I was specifically referring to teaching gun safety in schools like "safe sex" is taught.

So you claim that liberals don't have gun safety programs at all. Then, when it's pointed out that they do, in fact, include gun safety programs in their policy proposals, you argue that their proposals aren't working? I don't think you understand how proposals work.

Virtually every kid that goes through middle school is going to end up having sex sooner or later (most sooner). That's not true for owning or even handling a gun.

Any road, what you seem to have meant to say is "These are the liberals' proposals for the kind of gun safety I'm personally interested in," not that liberals don't include any gun safety training in their proposals.

[lilpixieofterror]

Where are they actually working, Sam? Are they SECRET programs? I was specifically referring to teaching gun safety in schools like "safe sex" is taught.

Not only that, but these 'programs' are pretty much drop in the bucket type programs. 5,000 extra mental health professionals, for a nation of over 300 million is a tiny increase.

[lilpixieofterror]

So you claim that liberals don't have gun safety programs at all. Then, when it's pointed out that they do, in fact, include gun safety programs in their policy proposals, you argue that their proposals aren't working? I don't think you understand how proposals work.

Virtually every kid that goes through middle school is going to end up having sex sooner or later (most sooner). That's not true for owning or even handling a gun.

Any road, what you seem to have meant to say is "These are the liberals' proposals for the kind of gun safety I'm personally interested in," not that liberals don't include any gun safety training in their proposals.

You don't Sam because he didn't ask that to start with, but being that you're a gun grabber; I shouldn't be surprised that you just glanced over the thread and didn't bother to read it.

[Cow Poke]

So you claim that liberals don't have gun safety programs at all.

Context, Sam. You never seem to be very good at CONTEXT. Read the OP again, please.

[Sam]

Context, Sam. You never seem to be very good at CONTEXT. Read the OP again, please.

I read it. Just read it again:

It just stands to reason that, since people (and even kids) are going to get hold of guns anyway, they'll have "gun safety" classes.

Here is a summary of their proposals for gun safety:

So you want some form of ubiquitous gun safety training and you're complaining that liberals have no such gun safety policy proposals. Given that, I'll have to ask you to read my response again, most notably:

Source: Ibid.

Launches a national gun safety campaign to encourage responsible gun ownership and authorizes the Consumer Product Safety Commission to examine issues relating to gun safety locks.

© Copyright Original Source

What your arguing doesn't exist was, in fact, explicitly stated as a policy proposal by the president more than two years ago. If you're going to salvage your claim, it's arguing that liberals aren't proposing universal gun training to middle school kids and you think they should. That's way more narrow in scope than your OP and makes that second quoted paragraph totally irrelevant.

[Cow Poke]

I read it. Just read it again:

Apparently, you read it SELECTIVELY, Sam, which was apparent the first time.

The part you skipped was the part about safe sex being taught in schools --- where is the equivalent "safe guns" instruction?

What your arguing doesn't exist was, in fact, explicitly stated as a policy proposal by the president more than two years ago.

OK, so I asked where this is actually happening. I mean, after all, he has a pen and a phone!

If you're going to salvage your claim,

Actually, I didn't make a claim --- I left a blank. You're more than welcome to answer the question, if you're just stop kabuki dancing long enough.

it's arguing that liberals aren't proposing universal gun training to middle school kids and you think they should. That's way more narrow in scope than your OP and makes that second quoted paragraph totally irrelevant.

Where is this actually in practice, Sam? Where is gun safety actually being taught in schools? Look at the TITLE, Sam -- "similar to safe sex".

[Sam]

Apparently, you read it SELECTIVELY, Sam, which was apparent the first time.

The part you skipped was the part about safe sex being taught in schools --- where is the equivalent "safe guns" instruction?



OK, so I asked where this is actually happening. I mean, after all, he has a pen and a phone!



Actually, I didn't make a claim --- I left a blank. You're more than welcome to answer the question, if you're just stop kabuki dancing long enough.



Where is this actually in practice, Sam? Where is gun safety actually being taught in schools? Look at the TITLE, Sam -- "similar to safe sex".

Exactly. Your argument isn't that liberals don't have gun safety policies, it's that liberals aren't proposing (and now you're adding in implementing) middle-school gun training programs. That's a far cry from the broad argument in the OP — gotta learn to argue your points without going broad.

And to that end, I don't know of any liberal proposal to implement gun training in middle or high school as though owning and handling a gun was as inevitable as having sex. Probably because owning and handling guns isn't anything like as inevitable as having sex and I can't even imagine the outcry of the tin-foil crowd when public schools are pushing "gun safety training" that includes practices or facts that they don't like. The Venn diagram for this crowd probably dovetails well with the same group that keeps pushing abstinence programs that are clearly and demonstrably counterproductive because they don't like the "liberal" way of teach sex ed.

[Cow Poke]

Exactly. Your argument isn't that liberals don't have gun safety policies,

My QUESTION is -- where do we see gun safety being taught in our schools like safe sex is being taught?

Can you please answer THAT one?

thanks

ETA:

OK, I see you actually DID answer the question:

...I don't know...

Thanks!

[Cow Poke]

Exactly. Your argument isn't that liberals don't have gun safety policies, it's that liberals aren't proposing (and now you're adding in implementing)

This is actually pretty revealing.
I think this really shows the difference between liberals and conservatives. It goes to the "but we tried" and "everybody gets a trophy" rationale.

When I ask about programs the liberals INTRODUCED (see thread title) I'm expecting to see something actually implemented.
When Sam reads that, he seems to think that it's simply good enough that somebody "proposed" something.

My bad!

[Sam]

This is actually pretty revealing.
I think this really shows the difference between liberals and conservatives. It goes to the "but we tried" and "everybody gets a trophy" rationale.

When I ask about programs the liberals INTRODUCED (see thread title) I'm expecting to see something actually implemented.
When Sam reads that, he seems to think that it's simply good enough that somebody "proposed" something.

My bad!

You're right. Obama should have just declared Congress null and void and done something. I'm sure he would have gotten wide support from the responsible-gun-ownership lobby.

[rogue06]

Well, this is embarrassing.

Source: SUMMARY: PRESIDENT OBAMA'S GUN-CONTROL PROPOSALS. NCSL.org. 2013

• Provides states with monetary incentives—$20 million in fiscal year FY 2013 and a proposed $50 million in FY 2014—to share information so that records on criminal history and people prohibited from gun ownership due to mental health reasons are more available.

...

• Provides training for “active shooter” situations to 14,000 law enforcement, first responders and school officials.

...

• Launches a national gun safety campaign to encourage responsible gun ownership and authorizes the Consumer Product Safety Commission to examine issues relating to gun safety locks.

• Helps schools invest in safety. The president’s plan calls for more school resource officers and counselors in all schools through the Community Oriented Policing Services hiring program. The plan also calls for the federal government to assist schools in developing emergency management plans.

• Improves mental health awareness through enhanced teacher training and referrals for treatment. The plan calls for the training of 5,000 additional mental health professionals nationwide. The plan also calls for coverage of mental health treatment under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008.

© Copyright Original Source

Seems like you need to bone up on those liberal gun safety proposals.

Those aren't safety programs Sam. Safety programs teach you how to handle something safely and more responsibly. Those proposals are far more akin to the abstinence programs in sex education.