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Mary Mother of God

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  • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Sorry, I sort of lost interest in wading through hansgeorg's handwaving. However, I do want to respond to this:

    There is no such command. There is a prohibition against vain repetitions. Contextually, that is repeating prayers in hopes that thereby they will be heard.
    No there isn't a command that you should say the rosary beads. However, what the prayer bead do help with is the remembrance of the story of Jesus Christ's life. Each devotee counts the same ring of ten beads repeatedly for every decade. In an example, for instance, and when praying, I remember the Joyful Mysteries:

    The Annunciation. Fruit of the Mystery: Humility
    The Visitation. Fruit of the Mystery: Love of Neighbour
    The Nativity. Fruit of the Mystery: Poverty (poor in spirit), Detachment from the things of the world, Contempt of Riches, Love of the Poor
    The Presentation of Jesus at the Temple. Fruit of the Mystery: Purity, Obedience
    The Finding of Jesus in the Temple. Fruit of the Mystery: True Wisdom and True Conversion, Piety, Joy of Finding Jesus

    What I find very helpful is to remember the story of the beginning of Christ's birth and what took place. Sometimes I will open the bible and go over the story by re-reading it and with the idea, in thought, to open my mind to scripture. There is no force to praying but only the willingness of becoming close. What something happens with others is that it can become repetitious which leads to becoming unconnected from the purpose.

    Remembrance:

    The tallit is normally made of wool and has special twined and knotted fringes (tzitziot) attached to each of its four corners. The tallit is thus sometimes called the arba kanfot, "four corners."

    When one is called up to read from the Torah, it is customary to place a corner of the tallit on the first word to be read, then kiss the tallit corner.

    Tassels on Garments
    37 The Lord said to Moses, 38 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘Throughout the generations to come you are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel. 39 You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the Lord, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes. 40 Then you will remember to obey all my commands and will be consecrated to your God. 41 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to be your God. I am the Lord your God.’”

    It is done to remember.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by hansgeorg View Post
      I have nothing against any of the things you positively said for Mary, but you seem to miss part of Her privileges.

      Blessed is said four times of women in OT.

      Two are blessed [in some limited respect] among women, Mary is [without such limitation] blessed among women.

      Those are military awards.

      Ruth is blessed because she gives Obed (?) a posterity and that posterity includes CHrist, Mary's child is Christ.

      There is one more. Abigail stopped King David from killing an obnoxious man.

      I think Mary has this kind of privilege too, since she says "all generations will call Her blessed" and this is broght fourth by Father Stephen Scheiner (?) who was being cpndened to Hell by Christ, but God's Mother interceded, he was revived.
      So that you understand the thought here. Abraham had gained righteousness through his belief in God's plan to have a son even in his old age and Sarah's, "6 Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.." Like Abraham, Mary is blessed and the passage states, "From now on all generations will call me blessed, 49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—holy is his name.
      50 His mercy extends to those who fear him, from generation to generation." Read Genesis 12, " I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you;I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing."

      What you're saying is that Mary has privileges and those privileges are in line with Abraham:

      3 I will bless those who bless you,
      and whoever curses you I will curse;
      and all peoples on earth
      will be blessed through you.”

      However! There is a very small statement that Mary exclaims and also, a very important one! Luke 1:50, "50 His mercy extends to those who fear him, from generation to generation."

      What does it mean to fear God? - so hopefully you can now plug in the rest! The fear of the Lord is said to be the beginning of wisdom. Without fear of the Lord, you will walk in darkness and be unable to turn away from evil. (Psalm 111:10, (I’ll put my own quotes – Psalm 107, Some sat in darkness, in utter darkness, prisoners suffering in iron chains,11 because they rebelled against God’s commands and despised the plans of the Most High).

      The comparison in scripture with Abraham as with Mary is remarkable - but both we're blessed and we are blessed through both. The first words are, "Do not be afraid"

      God told Mary the same thing! “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God."...."For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness;behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed. 49 The Mighty One has done great things for me,
      and with Abraham the Lord said, "“Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, I will make your reward very great."
      Last edited by Marta; 01-06-2017, 10:16 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        There is a prohibition against vain repetitions. Contextually, that is repeating prayers in hopes that thereby they will be heard.
        Er, is there even ANY word meaning "repetition" in the Greek?

        In Latin it is multiloquium.

        Considering how Vellejus Paterculus that same year finished book II of his Roman History, and considering Jesus Christ referred to Pagans, it means making a speech to God, like Vellejus Paterculus made to his gods. The latter obviously thought, the better speech, the better chances of being heard.
        http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

        Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

        Comment


        • Marta, you are forgetting one parallel with Abraham.

          Stabat mater dolorosa + Genesis 22.

          But there is also a difference, Isaac was just an image of Our Lord, not Our Lord Himself.

          Apart from that, I was comparing to OT passages where women are either called "blessed" or "blessed among [the] women [who]".
          http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

          Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by hansgeorg View Post
            Marta, you are forgetting one parallel with Abraham.

            Stabat mater dolorosa + Genesis 22.

            But there is also a difference, Isaac was just an image of Our Lord, not Our Lord Himself.

            Apart from that, I was comparing to OT passages where women are either called "blessed" or "blessed among [the] women [who]".

            Luke mentions two people who bear witness to Him in the Temple: Simeon and Anna. The Bible advises, and for specific cases in the Old Covenant Law even requires, the evidence of two witnesses to establish an important legal charge (Deuteronomy 17; 19). Simeon and Anna are the two witnesses here, a complimentary pair. Both are pious and patiently waiting for Israel’s redemption. They represent the whole human race, male and female. Simeon is the male witness, and Anna the female witness. The man comes first, but it is not good for him to be alone, so the woman comes second, joins to the work of the man, and together they complete their service to the Lord.
            Mary, Simeon or Anna: Who First Recognized Jesus as Messiah?


            Being first to hear doesn’t always mean being first to understand. In Luke’s birth narrative, Mary is the first to be told that Jesus will be the messiah. Luke adds that she “treasures the words” the angel Gabriel speaks to her. But Mary is also puzzled by the divine message; she is “perplexed” when the angel greets her and must “ponder” the meaning of his words (Luke 1:29; see also 2:19).

            Simeon takes Jesus in his arms and praises God: “Master, now you are dismissing your servant in peace, according to your word; for my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the presence of all peoples, a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel” (Luke 2:28–32).

            Anna then approaches the Holy Family. She, too, recognizes Jesus as messiah, but she has a very different reaction: “At that moment, she came and began to speak about the child to all who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem” (Luke 2:38). She is 84 years old, according to Luke, and she does not want to die: She wants to proselytize.

            Anna is a “prophetess” (Luke 2:36).

            According to Luke, Anna “never left the Temple but worshiped there with fasting and prayer night and day” (Luke 2:37).

            Deuteronomy 19:15 stresses the importance of having two witnesses to validate an event.

            repeating what I just wrote:

            If we are blessed, we are blessed because the Patriarch and the Matriarch (man and woman - together joined each other and being in the image and likeness of God) trusted and had faith in God's plan for us!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by hansgeorg View Post
              Marta, you are forgetting one parallel with Abraham.

              Stabat mater dolorosa + Genesis 22.

              But there is also a difference, Isaac was just an image of Our Lord, not Our Lord Himself.

              Apart from that, I was comparing to OT passages where women are either called "blessed" or "blessed among [the] women [who]".

              Important parts:

              28 "I came from the Father and entered the world (luke 1:35, and John 1, "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.).

              In turn, I will leave the world and go tothe Father.(John 16, "You will grieve, but your grief will turn to joy.")




              44“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’d Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

              61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

              70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”



              The understanding is that God, like the passages out of the OT (Torah), chooses a time and the people for His purpose. Like the story of Jacob upon seeing his son Joseph after all those years, as he thought his son was dead, rejoiced!

              • They told him, "Joseph is still alive! In fact, he is ruler of all Egypt." Jacob was stunned; he did not believe them.
              • 27 When they told him all the words of Joseph that he had spoken to them, and when he saw the wagons that Joseph had sent to carry him, the spirit of their father Jacob revived.…



              4 Then Joseph said to his brothers, “Come close to me.” When they had done so, he said, “I am your brother Joseph, the one you sold into Egypt! 5 And now, do not be distressed and do not be angry with yourselves for selling me here, because it was to save lives that God sent me ahead of you. 6 For two years now there has been famine in the land, and for the next five years there will be no plowing and reaping. 7 But God sent me ahead of you to preserve for you a remnant on earth and to save your lives by a great deliverance.a

              8“So then, it was not you who sent me here, but God.


              What did you read out of this story of Jacob and Joseph about the redemption and the rejoicing - "You will see me and then you won't"? It is about the reuniting! It is about how God's plan has a purpose and also, a direction! Correct - God's doesn't change His plan or promise? All started with a prophecy (in Joseph's dream) that eventually lead the Israelites to Egypt and then after 400 years of slavery to the Exodus, to the receiving of the laws in the desert and then to the promise land. However, initially (actually) was from another prophecy - the covenant (Brit) of pieces or covenant of parts.

              Hebrew Bible, the covenant of the pieces or covenant between the parts (Hebrew: ברית בין הבתרים berith bayin hebatrim) was an important event in the biblical story of the patriarch Abraham. In this event God revealed himself to Abraham and made a covenant with him (at the site known nowadays as Mount Betarim), in which God announced to Abraham that his descendants would eventually inherit the Land of Israel. This was the first of a series of covenants made between God and the Patriarchs. Wikipedia
              Look into the Picture down below: it is a shadow of the redeemer, Jesus.
              http://www.myjewishlearning.com/wp-c...al-theatre.jpg
              Last edited by Marta; 01-13-2017, 07:08 PM.

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