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Thread: Challenge to Mikeenders on the historicity of the Exodus

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    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Moderated By: Littlejoe

    This thread is solely for the participants in the debate (psstein and mikeenders) to define the parameters of their debate. All others are to refrain from posting in this thread. Thank You TWEB Staff

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    Quote Originally Posted by psstein View Post
    It is blatantly obvious that the Exodus as described in the OT did not take place. That is the statement I will defend.
    Great and with that amendment you can adjust my position to the real one as well - That there is good cause not to consider the non historicity of Exodus as blatantly obvious or to make it easy and short for the mods a simple negation/nay to your claim stated above.

    If an exodus dissimilar to the one in the OT took place, why call it the Exodus?
    Not sure where that question came from because I never implied any such thing. Surely you are aware there are different interpretations and identifications regarding various elements of the exodus so simple saying "as the OT records" is a bit ambiguous. For example of the list below I can live with 2 and 4 but 1 and especially 3 is subject to interpretation.

    1. The entire Jewish nation is enslaved in Egypt
    2. After a series of plagues and other odd occurrences, they leave Egypt under the guidance of Moses.
    3. They then cross the Sea of Reeds (Yam Suph) and follow the route described in the OT
    4. They sojourn for a long period of time in Sinai.
    SO to me its jut better to stick to the basics - presence of Jews in Egypt, after a series of of plagues departure to Canaan with a sojourning in the desert,

    Anyway I am booked solid next week and possibly a few days into the following week (big work project now finally moving forward) so for me at least to be safe the weekend of October 31 would be a good start date subject to what is mentioned above

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    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Moderated By: Littlejoe

    Debate participants, in order to set up your debate thread, please clarify so that I know for certain the following:

    ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
    Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.



    1. Is the exact debate "It is blatantly obvious that the Exodus as described in the OT did not take place."
    2. If so, is it correct that this is the position psstein will assert/defend and Mikeenders will oppose?
    3. Who will start
    4. How many rounds will the debate comprise including closing arguments
    5. When will it start


    Thanks

    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeenders View Post
    Great and with that amendment you can adjust my position to the real one as well - That there is good cause not to consider the non historicity of Exodus as blatantly obvious or to make it easy and short for the mods a simple negation/nay to your claim stated above.



    Not sure where that question came from because I never implied any such thing. Surely you are aware there are different interpretations and identifications regarding various elements of the exodus so simple saying "as the OT records" is a bit ambiguous. For example of the list below I can live with 2 and 4 but 1 and especially 3 is subject to interpretation.



    SO to me its jut better to stick to the basics - presence of Jews in Egypt, after a series of of plagues departure to Canaan with a sojourning in the desert,

    Anyway I am booked solid next week and possibly a few days into the following week (big work project now finally moving forward) so for me at least to be safe the weekend of October 31 would be a good start date subject to what is mentioned above
    Fine, I agree to these stipulations.

    My position will be that the Exodus as described in the OT did not take place. The weekend of the 31st is a good start date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    Moderated By: Littlejoe

    Debate participants, in order to set up your debate thread, please clarify so that I know for certain the following:

    ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
    Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.



    1. Is the exact debate "It is blatantly obvious that the Exodus as described in the OT did not take place."
    Yes thats the premise I agree to - not merely that it do not happen. I will dissent to that view with reasons and data


    3. Who will start
    stein has said he will start and I have no objections

    4. How many rounds will the debate comprise including closing arguments
    Stein has stated 4 and again I have no objections

    5. When will it start
    Seems we agree on the 31st

    Let the games begin post halloween :)

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    tWebber
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    Sorry, I haven't been paying attention.

    Yes, I will defend the premise "it is blatantly obvious the Exodus as described in the OT did not happen," though I'd probably not phrase it exactly like that for a debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by psstein View Post
    Sorry, I haven't been paying attention.

    Yes, I will defend the premise "it is blatantly obvious the Exodus as described in the OT did not happen," though I'd probably not phrase it exactly like that for a debate.
    Well with less than three days to go we will have to postpone this and hammer that phrase out because as it presently stands the ambiguity I expressed before hasn't been addressed so it seems the phrase suits neither of us perhaps for different reasons. My apologies to Joe again though. I misread and failed to note that issue wasn't in agreement. I should have reviewed it again earlier as well but hadn't seen an answer here from you (easy - I guess there are settings you can set to be notified of posts here but I never have) so wan't even sure this was still on.

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    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    I can fix the thread if you two will agree on the parameters and make them clear. Chop Chop!
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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    The premise I'll defend is "the Exodus as described in the OT did not happen."

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    Quote Originally Posted by psstein View Post
    The premise I'll defend is "the Exodus as described in the OT did not happen."
    and what exodus does that describe? Plus you are backtracking away from the level of certainty issue again which we should both know is our main point of contention.

    Anyway Waaaaay too ambiguous - theres no way to get around "as described" leads to as I interpret the text which is why I said weeks ago it was better to phrase that in concrete terms.

    Still open to discussing it but theres no way we will be starting a debate in less than two days at this point - not where we are at the moment.

    i again apologize to the mods for my part in the misunderstanding which given how I answered that question above was pretty big.

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