Thread: How many persons in Allah?
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November 12th 2006, 12:57 AM #1
How many persons in Allah?
"WE created the heavens and the earth and all between them in six days."
(Sura 50:38).
Whose we? How many persons in Allah? Or how many gods are Allah?"God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation..." (2 Cor. 5:18)
Yours for the cause... The Reconciler
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November 12th 2006, 01:30 AM #2
Re: How many persons in Allah?
Hello and Peace be to you friend,
Originally posted by The Reconciler
We refers to probably the angels, who were created by God as well. There is only one Allah, he ultimatley created everything.
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November 12th 2006, 02:10 AM #3
Re: How many persons in Allah?
is Allah the same God as of judaism?
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November 12th 2006, 02:12 AM #4
Re: How many persons in Allah?
Hello and Peace be to you friend,
Originally posted by BrianK
I believe so, if he is one in Judaism then yes. But if there is any partners associated with him like the trinity then no.
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November 12th 2006, 02:22 AM #5
Re: How many persons in Allah?
Well in the torah God made the earth and the angels didn't help. So why would your bible I don't know the name but why would it say We instead of just Allah?
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November 12th 2006, 02:43 AM #6
Re: How many persons in Allah?
Hello and Peace be to you,
Originally posted by BrianK
I'm sorry for I have to confess that I do not know much about this subject, and I could very well be wrong. Actually I most likely am wrong. But we must learn from our mistakes. Here is what a scholar has to say:
Praise be to Allaah.
It is a feature of literary style in Arabic that a person may refer to himself by the pronoun nahnu (we) for respect or glorification. He may also use the word ana (I), indicating one person, or the third person huwa (he). All three styles are used in the Qur’an, where Allaah addresses the Arabs in their own tongue. (Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 4/143).
“Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, sometimes refers to Himself in the singular, by name or by use of a pronoun, and sometimes by use of the plural, as in the phrase (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Verily, We have given you a manifest victory” [al-Fath 48:1], and other similar phrases. But Allaah never refers to Himself by use of the dual, because the plural refers to the respect that He deserves, and may refer to His names and attributes, whereas the dual refers to a specific number (and nothing else), and He is far above that.” (Al-‘Aqeedah al-Tadmuriyyah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 75).
These words, innaa (“Verily We”) and nahnu (“We”), and other forms of the plural, may be used by one person speaking on behalf of a group, or they may be used by one person for purposes of respect or glorification, as is done by some monarchs when they issue statements or decrees in which they say “We have decided…” etc. [This is known in English as “The Royal We” – Translator]. In such cases, only one person is speaking but the plural is used for respect. The One Who is more deserving of respect than any other is Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, so when He says in the Qur’an innaa (“Verily We”) and nahnu (“We”), it is for respect and glorification, not to indicate plurality of numbers. If an aayah of this type is causing confusion, it is essential to refer to the clear, unambiguous aayaat for clarification, and if a Christian, for example, insists on taking ayaat such as “Verily, We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’an)” [al-Hijr 15:9 – interpretation of the meaning] as proof of divine plurality, we may refute this claim by quoting such clear and unambiguous aayaat as (interpretation of the meanings): “And your god is One God, there is none who has the right to be worshipped but He, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful” [al-Baqarah 2:163] and “Say: He is Allaah, the One” [al-Ikhlaas 112:1] – and other aayaat which can only be interpreted in one way. Thus confusion will be dispelled for the one who is seeking the truth. Every time Allaah uses the plural to refer to Himself, it is based on the respect and honour that He deserves, and on the great number of His names and attributes, and on the great number of His troops and angels.” (Reference: Al-‘Aqeedah al-Tadmuriyyah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 109). And Allaah knows best.
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November 12th 2006, 08:51 AM #7
Re: How many persons in Allah?
To my knowledge all three (Quran, Torah, and the Bible) refer to WE/US creating the world and man.
Originally posted by BrianK
What's interesting is the translation, even though in ancient times would be expressed in plural for whatever reasons, remains the same.
If you have had the chance to read other ancient mythologies such as the Dead sea scolls and the Nag Hamadi scrolls you will find even more reason to question the interpretations of Genesis mythologies and the missing links therein.
Peace
SW
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November 12th 2006, 09:44 AM #8
Re: How many persons in Allah?
I know America has systematically destroyed the English language over there, so I feel I should explain:
"WE" is a majestic/imperial/royal/aristocratic "I" in correct English. The Arabs do the same. Just because Americans don't, doesn't mean the other 99.9 % of the planet (including God) don't.
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November 13th 2006, 07:23 AM #9
Re: How many persons in Allah?
That is all well and good. But considering the fact that thier were no Americans, Europeans, nor Arabs as G_D had not yet made man, then you have to question the use of the word. Thier were no Kings nor Kingdoms to reign at the time of Genesis, or were there?
Originally posted by Sevivon1913
If G_D, Singular, Alone, No other entity exsisted before him or before man, He would have been representing and talking about himself. No traditional word structure.
Also; Where are the stories in the Torah, Quran, and Bible as to where Lucifer, Satan, Gabriel, Michael had been created? Are these examples of G_D's personality? The serpent in the Garden of Eden talked! I find this piece of myth a bit amusing. Where did the serpent get this power, and where and why did the serpent have more knowledge than the Human's, Adam and Eve? G_d made Humans in His own likeness and dominion over all creatures of the earth, but it was another life form, spirit possessed not of G_D, that tempted and achieved it's goal of destroying the innocence of Adam and Eve.
Three Angels Entered Sodom and Gamorrah is just one example of a myth using more than one supernatural being.
In the Tower of Babel, G_d expressed the fear of Humans becoming like US and states this fact as if He were speaking to others.
You can distort context of a document, and some may simply accept this.
Given the acceptance of many Americans of a Hebrew G_D, I'd hardly say that it is Americans that distort the true meaning of We/Us. They simply follow the same path as you, and readily accept this fallible piece of the myth.
But given the proofs of all other historical texts, it is more and more apparent that the religions of old have evolved into what WE have today and are sorely lacking in original context. But thier are to many holes in the mythology's to simply deduce one sentence or word into a deviation of meaning by a group of people.
Taking the Myth of Genesis as a whole, you would have to say that either the Serpent was G_D in disguise, and he deliberately set the Tree of Good and Evil in the Garden for an act of defiance against Adam and Eve. As thier destiny was in the hands of One G_D and He forsook them. Or the Serpent was possessed by another powerful entity which was created before man, and had the power to entice man into defying G_d's word. Which is it? What about the Nephilim and Seriphim? What of the stories of these powerful beings having intercourse with mankind's daughters? What about Enoch?
Taking the word We or Us in context of the whole of the myth leaves to many wholes in your interpretation given the lack of text as to where these beings came from. Or does G_D have a split personality?
Peace
SW
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November 13th 2006, 10:46 PM #10
Re: How many persons in Allah?
Hello and Peace be to you friend,
Originally posted by Abraham
Please do indeed show us where in the Quran it says that there is more than one God. There is only one Allah and that's it. There is no Allahs, just Allah, frome El Ilah, meaning "the God" you are right about that. Allahumma is not falsely translated. Since there is only one God please do show us how it is falsely translated.
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November 14th 2006, 05:53 AM #11
Re: How many persons in Allah?
For further elaboration on the "WE" usage in the Quran, refer to the following short response:
Originally posted by Sevivon1913
Question:
Why does the Quran use the term "we" in its ayats?
Many non-believers believe that this may be in reference to Jesus?
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
It is a feature of literary style in Arabic that a person may refer to himself by the pronoun nahnu (we) for respect or glorification. He may also use the word ana (I), indicating one person, or the third person huwa (he). All three styles are used in the Qur’an, where Allaah addresses the Arabs in their own tongue. (Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 4/143).
“Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, sometimes refers to Himself in the singular, by name or by use of a pronoun, and sometimes by use of the plural, as in the phrase (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Verily, We have given you a manifest victory” [al-Fath 48:1], and other similar phrases. But Allaah never refers to Himself by use of the dual, because the plural refers to the respect that He deserves, and may refer to His names and attributes, whereas the dual refers to a specific number (and nothing else), and He is far above that.” (Al-‘Aqeedah al-Tadmuriyyah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 75).
These words, innaa (“Verily We”) and nahnu (“We”), and other forms of the plural, may be used by one person speaking on behalf of a group, or they may be used by one person for purposes of respect or glorification, as is done by some monarchs when they issue statements or decrees in which they say “We have decided…” etc. [This is known in English as “The Royal We” – Translator]. In such cases, only one person is speaking but the plural is used for respect. The One Who is more deserving of respect than any other is Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, so when He says in the Qur’an innaa (“Verily We”) and nahnu (“We”), it is for respect and glorification, not to indicate plurality of numbers. If an aayah of this type is causing confusion, it is essential to refer to the clear, unambiguous aayaat for clarification, and if a Christian, for example, insists on taking ayaat such as “Verily, We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’an)” [al-Hijr 15:9 – interpretation of the meaning] as proof of divine plurality, we may refute this claim by quoting such clear and unambiguous aayaat as (interpretation of the meanings): “And your god is One God, there is none who has the right to be worshipped but He, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful” [al-Baqarah 2:163] and “Say: He is Allaah, the One” [al-Ikhlaas 112:1] – and other aayaat which can only be interpreted in one way. Thus confusion will be dispelled for the one who is seeking the truth. Every time Allaah uses the plural to refer to Himself, it is based on the respect and honour that He deserves, and on the great number of His names and attributes, and on the great number of His troops and angels.” (Reference: Al-‘Aqeedah al-Tadmuriyyah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 109). And Allaah knows best.
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...xt=plural%20we
And:
Question:
Why does Allah(SWT) at times speak in the plural form in the Quran?
Jazak Allah Khair.
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
The answer is in two parts:
- In general terms, every believer must believe that every action of Allaah has great wisdom behind it, and there is no need for it to be explained in full to every person. This is a kind of test, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… that He may test you which of you is best in deed…” [al-Mulk 67:2]
- To answer this question in more detail: the Qur’aan was revealed in the language of the Arabs, and in Arabic it is as correct to use the plural when speaking of one person as it is to use the singular. But the plural is used for respect and glorification, and no one is more deserving of respect and glorification than Allaah. So the singular is used to affirm the fact that He is One and has no partner or associate, and the plural is used to affirm His glory and majesty, may He be exalted.
Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) wrote in Majmaoo’ al-Fataawaa (5/128) some words which may be of interest to us here:
“With regard to Allaah’s closeness to us, sometimes it is mentioned in the singular, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): ‘And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad) concerning Me, then (answer them) I am indeed near (to them by My knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me…’ [al-Baqarah 2:186] and the hadeeth: ‘The One on Whom you call is closer to any one of you than the neck of his riding-camel’, and sometimes in the plural, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): ‘… And We are nearer to Him than his jugular vein’ [Qaaf 50:16]. This is like the aayaat (interpretation of the meanings): ‘We recite to you…’ [al-Qasas 28:3] and ‘We relate unto you…’ [Yoosuf 12:3]. Such usage in Arabic refers to the one who is great and has helpers who obey him; when his helpers do something by his command, he says ‘We did it,’ as a king might say, ‘We conquered this land and we defeated this army,’ and so on.”
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=2090&ln=eng
In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
1. Say (O Muhammad ) "He (singular) Allâh (singular) is One (singular).
2. "Allah (singular), is He (singular), on Whom all depend
3. "He (singular) begets not, nor was He (singular) begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him (singular)."
Last edited by heisonly1; November 14th 2006 at 05:56 AM.
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November 14th 2006, 10:22 PM #12
Re: How many persons in Allah?
Originally posted by Abraham
Wasalam WalRahma my friend,
Ok lets start from the very first verse you brought up:
3:2
[003:002] God! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.
Tranliteration:
Transliteration:
[003:002] Allahu la ilaha illa huwa alhayyu alqayyoomu
Now the plural form here would be Illahee, not Ilaha. Ilaha is singular not plural.
9:31
[009:031] They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
Transliteration:
Ittakhathoo ahbarahum waruhbanahum arbaban min dooni Allahi waalmaseeha ibna maryama wama omiroo illa liyaAAbudoo ilahan wahidan la ilaha illa huwa subhanahu AAamma yushrikoona
Here it does use the plural form Allahi, BUT this is just describing what other religions did, it no way says worship Gods in Islam. Just Allah.
19:46
[019:046] (The father) replied: "Dost thou hate my gods, O Abraham? If thou forbear not, I will indeed stone thee: Now get away from me for a good long while!"
Transliteration:
Qala araghibun anta AAan alihatee ya ibraheemu la-in lam tantahi laarjumannaka waohjurnee maliyyan
Here we see the plural form of God, BUT this is Abraham's polytheist dad talking, no where does it say for Muslims to worship more than one God.
2:133
[002:133] Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy God and the God of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) God: To Him we bow (in Islam)."
Transliteration:
[002:133] Am kuntum shuhadaa ith hadara yaAAqooba almawtu ith qala libaneehi ma taAAbudoona min baAAdee qaloo naAAbudu ilahaka wa-ilaha aba-ika ibraheema wa-ismaAAeela wa-ishaqa ilahan wahidan wanahnu lahu muslimoona
now if this were Gods it should have said Ilahi not Ilaha. But it did not, Prophet Jacob taught Isaac and Ishmael very well.
Now as we see, there is only One God, Islam never said that there is another God, it showed stories of others believing in more than one God, but the religion itself instructs us to believe in only One God and that is Allah. Allah never said that there is another God, he did tell us of stories where others took their idols or people to the same status as God, but Allah declared that he is the one and only God and that's it. Of course there would be mention of the word "gods" but that is used to either tell of a punishment for what would happen to people who believe in more than one God, or Allah just told a story of someone or group of people who worshipped idols as Gods, like he did Ibrahim and his Father.
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November 15th 2006, 12:21 PM #13
Re: How many persons in Allah?
But is Allah the God (referred to in the OT)?
Originally posted by moose7237

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November 18th 2006, 03:38 AM #14
Re: How many persons in Allah?
Originally posted by The Reconciler
That would be at least two, but could be three. This is another example of how the Quran contradicts itself over and over again. And unlearned people actually believe that book. Amazing!Grow in Grace, Good News Man
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November 18th 2006, 03:51 AM #15
Re: How many persons in Allah?
Either you have not read my previous post or did not comprehend the arguments thererin.To erroneously postulate that Allah is more than one person only reflects your ignorance of the Arabic language expressed in the Quran and gross misunderstanding of the oneness of God in Islam.
Originally posted by Good News Man
For further elaboration on the "WE" usage in the Quran, refer to the following short response:
Question:
Why does the Quran use the term "we" in its ayats?
Many non-believers believe that this may be in reference to Jesus?
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
It is a feature of literary style in Arabic that a person may refer to himself by the pronoun nahnu (we) for respect or glorification. He may also use the word ana (I), indicating one person, or the third person huwa (he). All three styles are used in the Qur’an, where Allaah addresses the Arabs in their own tongue. (Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 4/143).
“Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, sometimes refers to Himself in the singular, by name or by use of a pronoun, and sometimes by use of the plural, as in the phrase (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Verily, We have given you a manifest victory” [al-Fath 48:1], and other similar phrases. But Allaah never refers to Himself by use of the dual, because the plural refers to the respect that He deserves, and may refer to His names and attributes, whereas the dual refers to a specific number (and nothing else), and He is far above that.” (Al-‘Aqeedah al-Tadmuriyyah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 75).
These words, innaa (“Verily We”) and nahnu (“We”), and other forms of the plural, may be used by one person speaking on behalf of a group, or they may be used by one person for purposes of respect or glorification, as is done by some monarchs when they issue statements or decrees in which they say “We have decided…” etc. [This is known in English as “The Royal We” – Translator]. In such cases, only one person is speaking but the plural is used for respect. The One Who is more deserving of respect than any other is Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, so when He says in the Qur’an innaa (“Verily We”) and nahnu (“We”), it is for respect and glorification, not to indicate plurality of numbers. If an aayah of this type is causing confusion, it is essential to refer to the clear, unambiguous aayaat for clarification, and if a Christian, for example, insists on taking ayaat such as “Verily, We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’an)” [al-Hijr 15:9 – interpretation of the meaning] as proof of divine plurality, we may refute this claim by quoting such clear and unambiguous aayaat as (interpretation of the meanings): “And your god is One God, there is none who has the right to be worshipped but He, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful” [al-Baqarah 2:163] and “Say: He is Allaah, the One” [al-Ikhlaas 112:1] – and other aayaat which can only be interpreted in one way. Thus confusion will be dispelled for the one who is seeking the truth. Every time Allaah uses the plural to refer to Himself, it is based on the respect and honour that He deserves, and on the great number of His names and attributes, and on the great number of His troops and angels.” (Reference: Al-‘Aqeedah al-Tadmuriyyah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 109). And Allaah knows best.
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?r...txt=plural%20we
And:
Question:
Why does Allah(SWT) at times speak in the plural form in the Quran?
Jazak Allah Khair.
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
The answer is in two parts:
- In general terms, every believer must believe that every action of Allaah has great wisdom behind it, and there is no need for it to be explained in full to every person. This is a kind of test, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… that He may test you which of you is best in deed…” [al-Mulk 67:2]
- To answer this question in more detail: the Qur’aan was revealed in the language of the Arabs, and in Arabic it is as correct to use the plural when speaking of one person as it is to use the singular. But the plural is used for respect and glorification, and no one is more deserving of respect and glorification than Allaah. So the singular is used to affirm the fact that He is One and has no partner or associate, and the plural is used to affirm His glory and majesty, may He be exalted.
Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) wrote in Majmaoo’ al-Fataawaa (5/128) some words which may be of interest to us here:
“With regard to Allaah’s closeness to us, sometimes it is mentioned in the singular, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): ‘And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad) concerning Me, then (answer them) I am indeed near (to them by My knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me…’ [al-Baqarah 2:186] and the hadeeth: ‘The One on Whom you call is closer to any one of you than the neck of his riding-camel’, and sometimes in the plural, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): ‘… And We are nearer to Him than his jugular vein’ [Qaaf 50:16]. This is like the aayaat (interpretation of the meanings): ‘We recite to you…’ [al-Qasas 28:3] and ‘We relate unto you…’ [Yoosuf 12:3]. Such usage in Arabic refers to the one who is great and has helpers who obey him; when his helpers do something by his command, he says ‘We did it,’ as a king might say, ‘We conquered this land and we defeated this army,’ and so on.”
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=2090&ln=eng
In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
1. Say (O Muhammad ) "He (singular) Allâh (singular) is One (singular).
2. "Allah (singular), is He (singular), on Whom all depend
3. "He (singular) begets not, nor was He (singular) begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him (singular)."
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