Unsure about denomination

[bloodrose]

What a joker. "Calvinists will burn"?

Okay, so I know a little bit about your opinion, but not enough to represent it, my point was that I didn't misrepresent it, becuase I made no attempt at representing it at all. The "Calvinists will burn" comment was a quote of yours, and yet you had the nerve to call my honest evaluation of calling exclusivism arrogant (i.e. a spade a spade) a "foul opinion about others"? Tell me honestly, how is that not hypocrisy? (Note that I am not calling you a "Hypocrite", per se, but you are required to answer)

Then you cannot 'know nothing'!

It was an exaggeration. I know virtually nothing, considering the amount that there is to know.

Stick to the point, if it won't stick in your gullet.

No.

Get behind me.

No.

[Kenite]

Okay, so I know a little bit about your opinion

I don't think so. I think that, like others, you are terrified out of your wits and your manners by my actual opinion on this and other matters. You prefer things expressed in your own cosy terms.

The "Calvinists will burn" comment was a quote of yours, and yet you had the nerve to call my honest evaluation of calling exclusivism arrogant

I wrote nothing of the kind.

It was an exaggeration.

It was a falsehood. And you have now added to it.

I know virtually nothing, considering the amount that there is to know.

See how many posts I have written!

[bloodrose]

Let me recap so far. Your first statement that I took offense to was this one.

I find it extremely hard to believe that you, a regular reader here, wish to tell the truth about my position,

And guess what! I don't wish to tell anything about your position here, truth or falsehood.

and it seems like deliberate misrepresentation to me.

What does? What misrepresentation? I didn't try to represent anything, so why must you make this claim?

Perhaps you would have the very small decency to keep your foul opinions about others to yourself.

I can only assume you're talking about on of these two statements of my own.

1. "....screaming "WE are the ONE TRUE church!" Just look out for that sort of arrogance...."

A spade is a spade. This is not a foul opinion.

2. "Rev. Lovejoy says it's the Western branch of Southern Reformed Presbo-Lutheranism. I'm inclined to agree with him, or at least, I am inclined to nod my head at the syndrome that Matt Groening is poking fun at"


This was not even remotely directed at you or your Church (whatever denomination that may be). Sorry if you took it that way. I was merely musing over the face that SO MANY denominations exist in the first place.

You would get banned from any debate that I run.

Agree with me or cease to speak? I didn't think you to be like that. Anyway on to phase two.

Okay, so I know a little bit about your opinion

I don't think so. I think that, like others, you are terrified out of your wits and your manners by my actual opinion on this and other matters. You prefer things expressed in your own cosy terms.

You're wrong. I don't read that many of your posts due to the way you normally write. I'm not scared of you, I pity you. I still couldn't care to go and read all of your posts because I could care less what you believe. BTW, what you call "cosy terms", I call "common manners" and "basic human decency".

The "Calvinists will burn" comment was a quote of yours, and yet you had the nerve to call my honest evaluation of "calling exclusivism arrogant" a foul opinion.

I wrote nothing of the kind.

Then you have this to explain. Post #47. Was this another Kenite, perhaps?

It was an exaggeration.

It was a falsehood. And you have now added to it.

Wrong! I've read a couple of your posts here and there and I know a little bit about your style of posting, but not a whole lot about you opinion, save that you hate Calvinists and hold to Sola Fide. So, what I said was an exaggeration.

Now your turn.

[Harfelugan]

It all started back with me going against my conservative church on the issue of women in leadership positions i.e. Priscilla being an apostle.

This is a position that some Christian denominations have taken a stand on because they believe it is adhering to scriptures, but adhering to scriptural commandments is'nt definitive of being the "True Church", just a characteristic of it.

This search is what started my looking into church history and what the early church believed. That is what opened a huge can of worms, sola scriptura, filioque, apostolic succession just to name a few.

Someone among the Early Church Fathers believed something about everything and wrote it down as teaching or history.These early writing proofs after the Apostles were not canonized as they were not believed to be God breathed,inspired by God, and just as importantly they do not flow in unity with the works that were canonized for the huge cans of worms they open. Look at the disunity in the modern Church that has arisen out of the extrabiblical opinions they contain. "Nice and interesting to read but not totally reliable to base decisions from."

I am trying to find out what the truth is but I am missing a lot of education on the different denominations of Christianity.

You can try that route if you have unlimited time to do so, and then you will find yourself in the same shoes as you were in after looking into the writings of the Early Church Fathers. Large cans of worms. Opinions based off of adherance to particular scriptures. Multiple interpretations as to doctrines found within the Bible on subjects that range from minute to radically affecting your salvation."Buyer Beware"

So if all who read this might be so kind as to inform me as to the questions I should be asking in searching for the true church that would be much appreciated.

When I accepted Christ as Lord and Savior,I became a member of the "True Church", not when I became a member of my particular denominational church, which some of us choose because that is where we experienced salvation and others choose because their interpretation of scripture fits theirs.

The questions to ask are those that that lead us to understand what is the body of Christ .

[brother vinny]

It has everything to do with finding the true church if you really think that women can be in positions of authority over men, because you cannot ever find a true church if you think so. It you think otherwise, there is some hope for you finding a true church. From your apparently perverse and boorish reply it seems likely that a true church should barricade itself when it sees you coming.

Because barring the door against sinners in need of truth is what a true church would do.

[Kenite]

Let me recap so far. Your first statement that I took offense to was this one.

And guess what! I don't wish to tell anything about your position here, truth or falsehood.

What does? What misrepresentation? I didn't try to represent anything, so why must you make this claim?

I can only assume you're talking about on of these two statements of my own.

1. "....screaming "WE are the ONE TRUE church!" Just look out for that sort of arrogance...."

A spade is a spade. This is not a foul opinion.

2. "Rev. Lovejoy says it's the Western branch of Southern Reformed Presbo-Lutheranism. I'm inclined to agree with him, or at least, I am inclined to nod my head at the syndrome that Matt Groening is poking fun at"


This was not even remotely directed at you or your Church (whatever denomination that may be). Sorry if you took it that way. I was merely musing over the face that SO MANY denominations exist in the first place.

Agree with me or cease to speak? I didn't think you to be like that. Anyway on to phase two.



You're wrong. I don't read that many of your posts due to the way you normally write. I'm not scared of you, I pity you. I still couldn't care to go and read all of your posts because I could care less what you believe. BTW, what you call "cosy terms", I call "common manners" and "basic human decency".


Then you have this to explain. Post #47. Was this another Kenite, perhaps?


Wrong! I've read a couple of your posts here and there and I know a little bit about your style of posting, but not a whole lot about you opinion, save that you hate Calvinists and hold to Sola Fide. So, what I said was an exaggeration.

Now your turn.

Should any reader suppose that there is any truth, save my belief in sola fide, in the above contemptible post, they may say so.

[Kenite]

Because barring the door against sinners in need of truth is what a true church would do.

Not all of them. You arre barred as a 'dog'.

[bloodrose]

Should any reader suppose that there is any truth, save my belief in sola fide, in the above contemptible post, they may say so.

Don't cry now, just respond. Say what you think is false.

At least explain this one:

The "Calvinists will burn" comment was a quote of yours, and yet you had the nerve to call my honest evaluation of "calling exclusivism arrogant" a foul opinion.

I wrote nothing of the kind.

So that is a lie. Post 47 on this page proves it. It says

Not so. All the repenting in the world would be of no avail if Jesus had not decided to go to the cross.

Calvinists will burn.

So instead of calling out to other TWEB members to see how much truth is in my words, account for your own first, then we'll see if I'm lying or not. So far the onus is on you to provide credibility.

[furay]

Sophist, welcome to Tweb, brother!

Here's my advice: keep digging through history as you've been doing. Read the fathers of the Church, learn about the Faith that so many martyrs have died to protect. A city on a hill cannot be hid... the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that Jesus Christ founded cannot be hid! Pray. If you knock he will open. The Lord wants you in His Church... He wants you to be in the ark of salvation before the rain starts pouring down. He will not ignore a contrite heart... desperately seeking Him. You WILL get your answers.

If I were you, I would automatically disregard all the "faith communities" that call themselves "churches" but do not mirror the historic Church at all. Start with the churches that have valid orders and true apostolic succession. Start with the churches that preserve the ancient beliefs of ALL christians on the Eucharist, Mary, the sacraments, etc. Read the earliest pre-nicene Fathers like St Ignatius of Antioch, St Justin the Martyr, Pope St Clement, St Polycarp, etc. and compare their teachings with those professed by Christians today. And above all, remember, the gates of hell have not (and cannot!) prevail against the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ. So anyone who tells you the Church fell into total apostasy and needed a "reformation" or anything similar is antichrist. Investigate the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox churches, the Oriental Orthodox Churches (Coptic, Armenians, Ethiopians, etc.) the Assyrian Church of the East, etc. God will lead you to His truth. His word is truth.

God Bless.

[Gideon Brown]

Sophist, welcome to Tweb, brother!

Here's my advice: keep digging through history as you've been doing. Read the fathers of the Church, learn about the Faith that so many martyrs have died to protect. A city on a hill cannot be hid... the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that Jesus Christ founded cannot be hid! Pray. If you knock he will open. The Lord wants you in His Church... He wants you to be in the ark of salvation before the rain starts pouring down. He will not ignore a contrite heart... desperately seeking Him. You WILL get your answers.

If I were you, I would automatically disregard all the "faith communities" that call themselves "churches" but do not mirror the historic Church at all. Start with the churches that have valid orders and true apostolic succession. Start with the churches that preserve the ancient beliefs of ALL christians on the Eucharist, Mary, the sacraments, etc. Read the earliest pre-nicene Fathers like St Ignatius of Antioch, St Justin the Martyr, Pope St Clement, St Polycarp, etc. and compare their teachings with those professed by Christians today. And above all, remember, the gates of hell have not (and cannot!) prevail against the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ. So anyone who tells you the Church fell into total apostasy and needed a "reformation" or anything similar is antichrist. Investigate the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox churches, the Oriental Orthodox Churches (Coptic, Armenians, Ethiopians, etc.) the Assyrian Church of the East, etc. God will lead you to His truth. His word is truth.

God Bless.

[The Plain Jane]

They'd all be wrong, simply because they are denominations. There is only one church, always has been, always will be.

What church is that?

[Kenite]

[QUOTE=furay] Start with the churches that have valid orders and true apostolic succession.
There are no organisations that can prove apostolic succession. This means that there cannot be such a thing, as God cannot fail. It means too that organisations that claim succession are fraudulent and rightfully criminal, so that narrows the field down somewhat.

Start with the churches that preserve the ancient beliefs of ALL christians on the Eucharist, Mary, the sacraments, etc.

'Ancient' beliefs that do not concur with Scripture may be the teachings of those who murdered early Christians. In any event, the warnings of all the NT writers bar James about false teachers already in the church must be taken account of. All educated who fail to take account of these warnings are the enemies of Christ.

Read the earliest pre-nicene Fathers like St Ignatius of Antioch, St Justin the Martyr, Pope St Clement, St Polycarp, etc.

And ask why these men's writings were not canonised as Scripture. Also note that all of these teachings and others associated put power into the hands of a small group of self-appointed men, men, moreover, who were often violent, lascivious, thieves and liars who have records that would be criminal today (and indeed still are).

and compare their teachings with those professed by Christians today.

Note that the 'pope' accounts Protestants as Christians, but they have generally regarded the above writers as heretical.

And above all, remember, the gates of hell have not (and cannot!) prevail against the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ.

True; death does not conquer those who have faith, though many persecute them in God's name, as prophesied. Jesus' words should not be taken to mean that there would always be a church, though Roman Catholics who claim that there were no 'Protestants' before the Reformation speak falsely, because history is very partial, in both senses of the word, and they speak of which they do not and cannot know. In any case, if God was truly represented by the dreadful 'popes' and 'cardinals' of earlier times (or the paederast protectors of today), it would be far more honourable to disown God completely.

So this 'ancient church' idea is a complete no-brainer. Sorting out the others is much more difficult; but still no problem, really.

[Kenite]

What church is that?

The one that gets lied about.

[brother vinny]

Not all of them. You arre barred as a 'dog'.

Even a dog like me gets crumbs from the Master's table, Kenite.

[The Plain Jane]

Here's my advice: keep digging through history as you've been doing. Read the fathers of the Church, learn about the Faith that so many martyrs have died to protect. A city on a hill cannot be hid... the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that Jesus Christ founded cannot be hid! Pray. If you knock he will open. The Lord wants you in His Church... He wants you to be in the ark of salvation before the rain starts pouring down. He will not ignore a contrite heart... desperately seeking Him. You WILL get your answers.

I can second that sophist. And any Protestant should agree because it is Scriptural as well.

I am personally not Protestant anymore, because I have rejected Sola Fide. There are Protestants, probably, that reject it as well. I'm not sure. But for what it's worth, here is the article that refutes the doctrine:
http://www.catholicintl.com/epologet...er-answers.htm

I am currently worshipping in a b-e-a-utiful Catholic church. Even though I don't necessarily buy their teachings on Mary.

So here's my advice: If you're looking for a church to align yourself with, in which you agree with everything they teach, I'm afraid you might be disappointed. I tend to see truth and good points in all major denominations. I diasagree with some more than others, i.e. I would never worship in a Baptist church (among others); though while I'm not Protestant, I will worship in a Lutheran or Anglican church.

I will tell you the same thing a Lutheran pastor told me: "Worship goes above and beyond doctrine." I personally don't know how much truth there is to that, but, I do feel that if you're buying into doctrine just because your church "says so" you are no longer a thinking Christian but rather a mindless sheep. Some would disagree. But that is my take on it.

If I were you, I would automatically disregard all the "faith communities" that call themselves "churches" but do not mirror the historic Church at all. Start with the churches that have valid orders and true apostolic succession. Start with the churches that preserve the ancient beliefs of ALL christians on the Eucharist, Mary, the sacraments, etc. Read the earliest pre-nicene Fathers like St Ignatius of Antioch, St Justin the Martyr, Pope St Clement, St Polycarp, etc. and compare their teachings with those professed by Christians today. And above all, remember, the gates of hell have not (and cannot!) prevail against the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ. So anyone who tells you the Church fell into total apostasy and needed a "reformation" or anything similar is antichrist. Investigate the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox churches, the Oriental Orthodox Churches (Coptic, Armenians, Ethiopians, etc.) the Assyrian Church of the East, etc. God will lead you to His truth. His word is truth.

In other words, sophist, be Catholic!

May God guide you on your journey.