Announcement

Collapse

Biblical Languages 301 Guidelines

This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Acts 2:26

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    I.... This understanding would explain the late addition of του to the text to read Αβιάθαρ του αρχιερέως.
    The "late addition" of του?

    What is the basis for your assumption that the text of Nestle-Aland (ἐπὶ Ἀβιαθὰρ ἀρχιερέως) is late and that of Textus Receptus (ἐπὶ Ἀβιαθὰρ τοῦ ἀρχιερέως) is early?

    From The King James Version Debate: A Plea for Realism (Baker, 1979) by D. A.Carson:
    There is no unambiguous evidence that the Byzantine text-type [which includes the reading in Textus Receptus] was known before the middle of the fourth century This point may be established by: (1) determining if there are any Greek manuscripts of pre-A.D. 350 date which reflect the Byzantine text-type; (2) examining pre-A.D. 350 versions with the same information; (3) reading the New Testament quotations found in the writings of the pre-A.D. 350 church fathers to discover if the biblical passages they quote approximate any particular text-type. In each case the evidence is uniform: the mature Byzantine text-type appears nowhere before the fourth century. [page 44]

    ....

    The Alexandrian text-type [which includes the reading in Nestle-Aland] has better credentials that any other text-type now available. .... The famous papyrus p75, which dates from about A.D. 200 and is perhaps earlier, is astonishingly close to Vaticanus. This find definitely proves the early date of the Vaticanus text-type. [page 55]

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by John Reece View Post
      The "late addition" of του?

      What is the basis for your assumption that the text of Nestle-Aland (ἐπὶ Ἀβιαθὰρ ἀρχιερέως) is late and that of Textus Receptus (ἐπὶ Ἀβιαθὰρ τοῦ ἀρχιερέως) is early?

      From The King James Version Debate: A Plea for Realism (Baker, 1979) by D. A.Carson:
      There is no unambiguous evidence that the Byzantine text-type [which includes the reading in Textus Receptus] was known before the middle of the fourth century This point may be established by: (1) determining if there are any Greek manuscripts of pre-A.D. 350 date which reflect the Byzantine text-type; (2) examining pre-A.D. 350 versions with the same information; (3) reading the New Testament quotations found in the writings of the pre-A.D. 350 church fathers to discover if the biblical passages they quote approximate any particular text-type. In each case the evidence is uniform: the mature Byzantine text-type appears nowhere before the fourth century. [page 44]

      ....

      The Alexandrian text-type [which includes the reading in Nestle-Aland] has better credentials that any other text-type now available. .... The famous papyrus p75, which dates from about A.D. 200 and is perhaps earlier, is astonishingly close to Vaticanus. This find definitely proves the early date of the Vaticanus text-type. [page 55]
      Respectfully, you took what I said backwards.

      The late reading: επι αβιαθαρ του αρχιερεως
      The early reading: επι αβιαθαρ αρχιερεως. And I believe is the original.

      The αβιαθαρ αρχιερεως is being translated typically as "of Abiathar the high priest."
      It could be understood as "Abiathar of [the] high priest" by the hearers. The hears of Jesus day knowing that event Jesus related regarding Abiathar, that Abiathar was not yet the High Priest but was known to be the son of the High Priest.

      So a translation: "Abiathar was High Priest," which is standard, could be rendered "Abiathar was [son of the] High Priest Where, I think, the reader can understand [son of the] is an interpretation which can be omitted. As I explained the hears would have known Abiathar was not yet the High Priest and was the son of the High Priest. So how ever one translates this that common sense understand of the hearers should be considered.

      An added note: Both the critical texts and the majority texts (83.7%) have: επι αβιαθαρ αρχιερεως
      It is the so-called TR which has: επι αβιαθαρ του αρχιερεως

      Also BTW I had not originally checked the reading: επι αβιαθαρ του αρχιερεως. I was aware of επι αβιαθαρ αρχιερεως .reading, but did not know it was the common reading of the Greek texts when I made my OP.
      Last edited by 37818; 11-01-2015, 05:38 PM.
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        Respectfully, you took what I said backwards.

        The late reading: επι αβιαθαρ του αρχιερεως
        The early reading: επι αβιαθαρ αρχιερεως. And I believe is the original.

        The αβιαθαρ αρχιερεως is being translated typically as "of Abiathar the high priest."
        It could be understood as "Abiathar of [the] high priest" by the hearers. The hears of Jesus day knowing that event Jesus related regarding Abiathar, that Abiathar was not yet the High Priest but was known to be the son of the High Priest.

        So a translation: "Abiathar was High Priest," which is standard, could be rendered "Abiathar was [son of the] High Priest Where, I think, the reader can understand [son of the] is an interpretation which can be omitted. As I explained the hears would have known Abiathar was not yet the High Priest and was the son of the High Priest. So how ever one translates this that common sense understand of the hearers should be considered.

        An added note: Both the critical texts and the majority texts (83.7%) have: επι αβιαθαρ αρχιερεως
        It is the so-called TR which has: επι αβιαθαρ του αρχιερεως

        Also BTW I had not originally checked the reading: επι αβιαθαρ του αρχιερεως. I was aware of επι αβιαθαρ αρχιερεως .reading, but did not know it was the common reading of the Greek texts when I made my OP.

        Comment

        widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
        Working...
        X