Man In The Image Of God

[seer]

In my thread on stardust I believe that most of the non-theists agreed that human beings have no more inherent worth than a common tick. That we really are just biological bags evolved to a higher order...

Now for the Christian view:

First, man was created in the image of God. We bear an inherent likeness to the Creator, that as far as we know, no other creature in heaven or earth shares.

Second, God's love for mankind imputs worth. We are of much more worth than animals (for instance see Matt.10:29-31). And if God declares something worthy, it is worthy by decree. His opinion is final.

Third, conscious, rational, loving minds with volition are of more worth than, a rock let's say, because again they reflect that which at the core of creation - Mind. That which is ultimate reality. Even of more value than the rock we call our sun. For that rock will someday die while many of the image bearers of God will live and love for eternity.

Fourth, our choices in this model carry much more significance. One set of choices will lead to everlasting life and bliss, another set of choices will lead to eternal death. This elevates human choice to a plane far above anything that the naturalist can offer...

Fifth, even the lost will fill a significant roll in this wordview. For they will be an eternal ensign of God's justice and wrath while magnifying His grace for His dear elect.

[Jme]

In my thread on stardust I believe that most of the non-theists agreed that human beings have no more inherent worth than a common tick.

I didn't comment in the other thread so I will comment here - worth is granted by by people, we decide what something is worth. I've known people that place more value on their pets than other people - for them their pets have more worth.

Now for the Christian view:

First, man was created in the image of God. We bear an inherent likeness to the Creator, that as far as we know, no other creature in heaven or earth shares.

We hear this a lot but what does it mean to be created in his image? What are the attributes that we share?

Second, God's love for mankind imputs worth. We are of much more worth than animals (for instance see Matt.10:29-31). And if God declares something worthy, it is worthy by decree. His opinion is final.

This is all rather pointless with regards to science so why is it here and not in apologetics?

Third, conscious, rational, loving minds with volition are of more worth than, a rock let's say, because again they reflect that which at the core of creation - Mind. That which is ultimate reality. Even of more value than the rock we call our sun. For that rock will someday die while many of the image bearers of God will live and love for eternity.

I'm sorry you think that the sun is a rock? Did you have any kind of science education at all? You would also have to explain just how you think that you have a conscious, raitional mind when your interpretation of the evidence leads you to believe that you don't.

This elevates human choice to a plane far above anything that the naturalist can offer...

This means nothing as anyone could make up another model that elevates it further but that wouldn't make it fact - it doesn't matter whether it makes you feel good or makes more sense to you, that doesn't make it fact.

Fifth, even the lost will fill a significant roll in this wordview. For they will be an eternal ensign of God's justice and wrath while magnifying His grace for His dear elect.

Justice? Where is the justice in punishing someone not for anything wrong they have done (by the only standards we have - our own. Claims that god/s have standards are irrelevant unless you can demostrate them) but rather for a non-belief in an ancient figure in history claim to divinity. What exactly do you think is wrong in not thinking the evidence is good enough?

[seer]

I didn't comment in the other thread so I will comment here - worth is granted by by people, we decide what something is worth. I've known people that place more value on their pets than other people - for them their pets have more worth.

True, but people who do such are wrong. According to my beliefs. An animal never has more worth than a human being.

We hear this a lot but what does it mean to be created in his image? What are the attributes that we share?

Rational thought, self awareness. The ability to love, moral volition, etc...

This is all rather pointless with regards to science so why is it here and not in apologetics?

This is an offshoot of my stardust thread which is on this board.

This means nothing as anyone could make up another model that elevates it further but that wouldn't make it fact - it doesn't matter whether it makes you feel good or makes more sense to you, that doesn't make it fact.

Of course we believe that it is fact.

Justice? Where is the justice in punishing someone not for anything wrong they have done (by the only standards we have - our own. Claims that god/s have standards are irrelevant unless you can demostrate them) but rather for a non-belief in an ancient figure in history claim to divinity. What exactly do you think is wrong in not thinking the evidence is good enough?

I bet you have violated your own standards. And no, I do not have to demostrate anything since the law of God is written on our hearts - our moral sense is self-evident.

[oxmixmudd]

Justice? Where is the justice in punishing someone not for anything wrong they have done (by the only standards we have - our own. Claims that god/s have standards are irrelevant unless you can demostrate them) but rather for a non-belief in an ancient figure in history claim to divinity. What exactly do you think is wrong in not thinking the evidence is good enough?

I'm not intending to get too involved here but, I don't think the issue is what we don't know about in terms of right and wrong - it is what we do know is right and chose to ignore. None of us fully follows what we perceive to be right and wrong. And sometimes we know something is wrong because of that internal sense of right and wrong we have, even though our culture and teaching may tell us otherwise. Further, it goes a lot deeper than just things like stealing and murder or how short a dress a girl whould wear, it goes to things like just being mean to someone we happen not to like, or ignoring someone in trouble because we are in a hurry.

This condemns us.

Believing in Christ frees us from that condemnation. If one dies of a disease, we do not say the cure killed them because they refused it, or were afraid to take it, or didn't think it would work. The disease killed them. The cure would have saved them, had they chosen to take it.

As to why the evidence supporting the 'cure' isn't an absolute proof that no-one can deny - I really don't know. But Jesus said if one seeks Him, they will find Him. That has proven true in my life.


Jim

[NeilUnreal]

(Warning! Mysticism ahead. )

There have always been Christian mystics and theologians who championed the more Eastern view that things in this realm are inextricably tangled with one another both physically and spiritually. In that context, there is no conflict between the notion that each human is both uniquely made as a fragment of the image of God, and that we are all joined cosmologically by our physical being.

-Neil

[seer]

(Warning! Mysticism ahead. )

There have always been Christian mystics and theologians who championed the more Eastern view that things in this realm are inextricably tangled with one another both physically and spiritually. In that context, there is no conflict between the notion that each human is both uniquely made as a fragment of the image of God, and that we are all joined cosmologically by our physical being.

-Neil

errr, ok...

[wattsr1]

(Warning! Mysticism ahead. )

There have always been Christian mystics and theologians who championed the more Eastern view that things in this realm are inextricably tangled with one another both physically and spiritually. In that context, there is no conflict between the notion that each human is both uniquely made as a fragment of the image of God, and that we are all joined cosmologically by our physical being.

-Neil

Very true.

I suspect the Bible in part, reflects such notions. For example the verse where it talks about God being aware of the little spoggie (sparrow) falling to the ground, or God numbering the hairs on one's head. A remark on the omnipresence of God or the caring attitude of God and the concept that all of creation is tied into this care?

[NeilUnreal]

A remark on the omnipresence of God or the caring attitude of God and the concept that all of creation is tied into this care?

Yes. And perhaps something that we can only understand partially and by analogy.

I was thinking of the parable of the "Jewel Net of Indra," in which each being (including people, rocks, events, ideas, etc.) in the universe is envisioned as a kind of reflective gem in a vast network. Each gem reflects all the others, and recursively, even reflects itself reflected in all the others.

Hence, each gem reflects in the light of the Absolute God, but what is reflected is the recursive network of all beings.

There's a Chinese parable about the "many" and the "one" that is the equivalent. It postulates a candle in a room with walls, floor, and ceiling of mirrors. Hence, the "many" reflections (beings) and the "one" light (God).

Or, as a Zen patriarch might put it:

Monk One: We are stardust.

Monk Two: We are the image of God.

Monk Neil: The Jewel Net of Indra shows how we are both.

Zen Patriarch: Stardust, Image, Jewel Net, all the same answer -- when the mouth opens, all wrong.



Because God doesn't care about sparrows, yet God cares about each sparrow.

-Neil

[geochron]

In my thread on stardust I believe that most of the non-theists agreed that human beings have no more inherent worth than a common tick.

I don't think I read it, but I suspect that for a non-theist "inherent worth" is undefined. If so, the way you've understood their position is incorrect.

[LGM]

I don't think I read it, but I suspect that for a non-theist "inherent worth" is undefined. If so, the way you've understood their position is incorrect.

Actually, Seer did explain his objective valuation system in that thread. It turns out Seer has more "inherent worth" then anything he can flush down his toilet.

I kid you not.

[LGM]

Because God doesn't care about sparrows, yet God cares about each sparrow.

I hear he's not crazy about pigs or lobster tho...

[NeilUnreal]

I hear he's not crazy about pigs or lobster tho...

Or maybe God especially likes pigs and lobsters, and that's why He doesn't want people going around eating them...

-Neil