Originally posted by Sparko
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Shalom!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the world religion of Judaism in general and also its relationship to Christianity. This forum is generally for theists only. Non-theists (eg, atheistic Jews) may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Forum Rules: Here
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Originally posted by Outis View PostThe courts have already placed "public commerce" over first amendment objections, Sparko. See Employment Division v. Smith. Religious objections do not entitle you to refuse to comply to generally applicable laws.
wow. and you don't think it will get to the point that churches will be required to perform SS marriages or be sued?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postwow. and you don't think it will get to the point that churches will be required to perform SS marriages or be sued?
Will there be lawsuits? Possibly. What will the outcome be? If the plaintiffs are lucky, all they will get is to pay the expenses of the defendants. If they're unlucky, they may get slapped with punative damages as well.
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Originally posted by Outis View PostNo, because churches are not, and have never been, considered part of "commerce" that can be regulated by Congress.
Will there be lawsuits? Possibly. What will the outcome be? If the plaintiffs are lucky, all they will get is to pay the expenses of the defendants. If they're unlucky, they may get slapped with punative damages as well.
Your argument doesn't hold any water at all.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWhy do you think so? You seem perfectly willing to place "public commerce" over the 1st Amendment. What makes you think it will stop with wedding cakes?אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostAnd SS marriage has never been legal marriage before, and never before has a business been forced to participate in selling goods or services to those who insist that SS marriage is some special class above the first amendment.
That is what these cases will be decided upon in the courts.
If congress is already making laws that trump the first amendment then they are already breaking the constitution.
These laws do not "trump" the Constitution, Sparko--any more than the Civil Rights Act of 1964 "trumped" the Constitution.
Unfortunately, perhaps, for you, the Courts don't play favorites. Unless there is a rational government interest in forbidding same-sex marriages, the courts will overturn state laws forbidding them (whether explicitly or implicitly by defining marriage as "one man and one woman"). But what you're arguing about is far above the rational review stage.
Why should they stop at wedding cakes?
They won't include churches. They won't include private clubs. Those are already exempted.
Your argument doesn't hold any water at all.
And that is how the courts will decide.
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