Majority opposes gay marriage

[The Laughing Man]

Poll finds majority against gay unions

• Candidates may face threat of backlash
  By WILL LESTER
  Associated Press
  WASHINGTON -- More than half of Americans favor a law barring gay marriage and specifying wedlock be between a man and a woman, an Associated Press poll found.
  
  The survey also found presidential candidates could face a backlash if they support gay marriage or civil unions, which provide gay couples the legal rights and benefits of marriage.
  
  The poll, conducted for the AP by ICR-International Communications Research of Media, Pa., found 52 percent favor a law banning gay marriages, while 41 percent oppose it.
  
  About four in 10 -- 41 percent -- support allowing civil unions, roughly the same level found in an AP poll three years ago. But 53 percent now say they oppose civil unions, up from 46 percent in the earlier survey.
  
  The increase came largely from people who previously were undecided, the polls suggested.
  
  Close to half those surveyed said they would be less likely to support a presidential candidate who backs civil unions (44 percent) or gay marriage (49 percent), while only around 10 percent said they would be more likely.
  
  "I don't think it's a great idea, the whole idea of marriage is bringing up children," said Jim Martin, a 64-year-old engineer from Alexandria, Va. "If somebody was promoting it, I would vote against them."
  
  The issue poses a challenge for the Democratic presidential candidates in the 2004 election. The six leading candidates say they oppose gay marriage but are critical of efforts to ban it.
  
  Four of the six -- former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, Missouri Rep. Dick Gephardt, Florida Sen. Bob Graham and Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry -- say they support civil unions. North Carolina Sen. John Edwards and Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman say they favor benefits for gay partners, but say states should decide on civil unions.
  
  President Bush has said he supports efforts to legally ban gay marriage, but encourages tolerance of gays and lesbians.
  
  About one-third of people who identified themselves as Democrats and independents said they would be less likely to support a candidate who backs civil unions. Twice as many Republicans said they feel that way.
  
  More than four in 10 Democrats support passing laws against gay marriage, according to the poll. Two-thirds of Republicans support passing such laws.

[Bill the Cat]

too bad we don't live in a true democracy where majority wins.

But that'd be dangerous, given the current rate of moral decline...

[BeHereNow]

Are these the same people that think Saddam Hussein has been linked to 9/11?
http://www.abcnews4.com/news/stories/0703/93130.html

Washington (AP) - Seven in 10 people in a poll say the Bush administration implied that Iraq and its leader Saddam Hussein were involved in the Sept. 11 attacks against the United States.

And a majority, 52 percent, say they believe the United States has found clear evidence in Iraq that Saddam was working closely with the al-Qaida terrorist organization.

Bill the Cat, you might find this speech by Senator James A. Reed in 1926 to be interesting. Here's a couple snippets:

http://pages.prodigy.net/krtq73aa/reed.htm

I am getting a little tired of hearing about the sacred rights of the majority; that this is a country ruled by the majority; and that the majority has the right to have its way. This is not a country ruled by the majority. This is not a country of majority rule. The Constitution of the United States was written, in large part, to prevent majority rule. The Declaration of Independence was an announcement that there are limitations upon majority rule.

...

Majority rule! Where is the logic or the reason to be found back of majority rule except in the mere necessity to dispatch business? The fact that a majority of 1 or 10 vote for a bill in the Senate is not a certification that the action is right. The majority has been wrong oftener than it has been right in all the course of time. The majority crucified Jesus Christ. The majority burned the Christians at the stake. The majority drove the Jews into exile and the ghetto. The majority established slavery. The majority set up innumerable gibbets. The majority chained to stakes and surrounded with circles of flame martyrs through all the ages of the world's history. The majority in China believe in a doctrine and follow a code of ethics different from ours. Either they are wrong or we are wrong. The majority in India follow a different code of ethics and have a different set of ideas than we, and they far out number us. Either they are wrong or we are wrong.

[rlj51]

I guess this is a weird question, but is our country based on majority rule? Are our laws passed because a majority of people want them passed, or because a group of people we elect (or one could argue are rich enough or have the right connections) who are supposedly smarter than us want them passed? What do ya guys think?

If the majority of the population think something is right, does that make it right? Or are things right regardless of who (or how many people) think they are right ?

[BeHereNow]

From the speech I linked above:

"This is not a country of majority rule. The Constitution of the United States was written, in large part, to prevent majority rule. The Declaration of Independence was an announcement that there are limitations upon majority rule."

[rlj51]

Yeah, I get that. But what kind of system do we have in place of majority rule? How does it work? You didn't really address my post.

[The Laughing Man]

Majority rule is a big no-no, but apparently minority rule isn't.

[Bill the Cat]

It's like... Who cares what most of you want... Better to make the few happy and to heck with the many...

[Pilgrim]

We elect individuals we think represent our best intrests and who we deem to be most capable of governing. This means that at some times the majority does not get what it wants.

Check out this articlein News Week from last week. This is why majority rule is dangerous: most people are just pretty dumb.

[Bill the Cat]

Pilgrim, that's true totally, but one man's stupidity is another's genius.

[The Laughing Man]

The majority only matters to leftists when it involves something they like. For instance, I'm sure we all remember leftists whining about Gore getting the majority vote in the 2000 election and the bogus cries of "Bush doesn't have a mandate!" Then the majority mattered. Ah, but when the majority supports something the leftists don't like, then it doesn't matter.

[A2SG]

Poll finds majority against gay unions

So what? The majority are free to marry only heterosexuals.

But, really, since when does the majority get a vote in anyone's decision to get married?

-- A2SG, married already, and I never hadda ask the majority for permission....

[BeHereNow]

rlj51:

Yeah, I get that. But what kind of system do we have in place of majority rule? How does it work? You didn't really address my post.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands....

Representative democracy.

Jinx72:

The majority only matters to leftists when it involves something they like. For instance, I'm sure we all remember leftists whining about Gore getting the majority vote in the 2000 election and the bogus cries of "Bush doesn't have a mandate!" Then the majority mattered. Ah, but when the majority supports something the leftists don't like, then it doesn't matter.

You could say the same thing about any group, not just leftists.

For example, what was your point of posting this thread? Simply to show that a majority opposes gay marriage? Or were you implying that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because the majority opposes it?

[Lazy Agnostic]

Yesterday @ 01:26 PM post located here
rlj51:

I guess this is a weird question, but is our country based on majority rule? Are our laws passed because a majority of people want them passed, or because a group of people we elect (or one could argue are rich enough or have the right connections) who are supposedly smarter than us want them passed? What do ya guys think?

If the majority of the population think something is right, does that make it right? Or are things right regardless of who (or how many people) think they are right ?

As much as Jinx would like to see a theocracy, we have a pluralistic democratic republic. Individual rights are protected from the tyranny of the majority.

Read *Thomas Paine's The Rights of Man....followed by his The Age of Reason.

*called the the Godfather of the United States of America---a remarkable thinker and selfless patriot.

[John Boy]

rlj51:
Yeah, I get that. But what kind of system do we have in place of majority rule? How does it work? You didn't really address my post.

We have a Democratic Republic, and not a true democracy. That Republic is governed and limited by the laws of the Constitution.

Pilgrim beat me to the punch: It is a good thing we aren't a pure democracy: people are STUPID. They don't believe in the Constitution, either and are quite willing to surrender their own rights almost as quickly as they are willing to surrender the rights of others. Patriot II, anybody?

Back to the topic at hand, I bet, back in the sixties, a majority of American probably disapproved of interracial marriages (and it took a Supreme Court ruling in the SEVENTIES to get those stupid laws off the books, too). People are stupid and believe stupid things. Present company included.

Take my word for it: gays will be allowed to marry within the decade (if not sooner) throughout most of America and ALL of America within two decades--even if it is called a "Civil Union" to keep the Right-Wing from weeping and gnashing their teeth. Besides, the day we take advice on what constitutes a "Marriage" from politicians is the day America truly goes down the crapper. "Defense of Marriage" my eye (eg. which one of the four marriages one of the Repubs who voted to support the bill was the good one, I wonder? ).

Jinx72:
Ah, but when the majority supports something the leftists don't like, then it doesn't matter.

I do believe there is a timber in your eye...

Take care.