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Philosophy 201 Guidelines

Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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  • #91
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Its not dumb, it is science. Your confusion of temperature and time was unbelievably dumb.

    I will add references.
    Amazing that someone can get so snotty about "nothing."
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by robertb View Post
      WTF?

      I think we are done.
      Source: hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html



      The Beginning of Time

      The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago. The beginning of real time, would have been a singularity, at which the laws of physics would have broken down. Nevertheless, the way the universe began would have been determined by the laws of physics, if the universe satisfied the no boundary condition. This says that in the imaginary time direction, space-time is finite in extent, but doesn't have any boundary or edge. The predictions of the no boundary proposal seem to agree with observation. The no boundary hypothesis also predicts that the universe will eventually collapse again. However, the contracting phase, will not have the opposite arrow of time, to the expanding phase. So we will keep on getting older, and we won't return to our youth. Because time is not going to go backwards, I think I better stop now.

      © Copyright Original Source

      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by robertb View Post
        My view on time is that the past and future are real and that the present is relative - the past and future exist eternally in a static universe.

        That said, your discussion of cause and effect is not relevant to my position.
        Then your position if i understand you correctly is that the universe itself is infinite and has no cause.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Then your position if i understand you correctly is that the universe itself is infinite and has no cause.
          I think that the universe is eternal, but I don't know if that means that it is also necessarily infinite - could be.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by robertb View Post
            I think that the universe is eternal, but I don't know if that means that it is also necessarily infinite - could be.
            You're than proposing that the universe (physical existence including our universe?) is eternal with a time frame.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
              Amazing that someone can get so snotty about "nothing."
              The problem was not comprehending high school level time and temperature notation.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                I have asked 37818 to clarify his objections to 'Robert G. Brown's assertion?,' but at present he has failed to do so.

                Robert G. Brown is at Duke near where I live and I have listened to his lectures.
                I do not agree with the use of the term "bull****."
                Nothing more need be said about that usage.
                The fact that all arguments start with unproven or unprovable premises or if you prefer assertions. <--- Even that statement is guilty of that.
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  I do not agree with the use of the term "bull****."
                  Nothing more need be said about that usage.
                  The fact that all arguments start with unproven or unprovable premises or if you prefer assertions. <--- Even that statement is guilty of that.
                  Right.

                  I haven't found a way around it, though. I think there might be some things that we can confidently say without worrying about unprovable premises, but it's a very short list. "Cogito ergo sum" is the only one I can think of offhand, and even that would need to be reworded somewhat.
                  I'm not here anymore.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by robertb View Post
                    I think that the universe is eternal, but I don't know if that means that it is also necessarily infinite - could be.
                    If the universe isn't infinite, then what would you call that which the universe is bounded by. Nothing? How would you define nothing in that sense? Anyway, if the universe is eternal, then you don't believe it had a cause, correct?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      If the universe isn't infinite, then what would you call that which the universe is bounded by. Nothing? How would you define nothing in that sense? Anyway, if the universe is eternal, then you don't believe it had a cause, correct?
                      I don't know if the universe is infinite. If it is not, then what lies north from the north pole?

                      I do not believe that the universe has a "cause", as I said, I think it is eternal.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by robertb View Post
                        I don't know if the universe is infinite. If it is not, then what lies north from the north pole?
                        I've heard that analogy before robert, but it isn't an apt analogy in this case because we know what is north of the north pole, and it isnt nothing, the earth is within and a part of a greater whole, the universe.
                        I do not believe that the universe has a "cause", as I said, I think it is eternal.
                        Okay, I must have lost track, I thought you were arguing just the opposite, that the universe had a cause. But again, if it didn't have a cause, then though our patch of spacetime, with respect to itself may be finite, but with respect to existence as a whole, it must be infinite.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          I've heard that analogy before robert, but it isn't an apt analogy in this case because we know what is north of the north pole, and it isnt nothing, the earth is within and a part of a greater whole, the universe.
                          Whether apt or not, it makes the point, which you clearly understood, that I wished to make.

                          Okay, I must have lost track, I thought you were arguing just the opposite, that the universe had a cause.
                          I suppose that a theist might, if they believed that the universe required a sustaining cause, try to claim that the universe is co-eternal with a sustaining cause. That said, I view the universe as static (in the sense I have been using) thus the universe does not need to come into or be held in existence from moment to moment - no cause required.

                          But again, if it didn't have a cause, then though our patch of spacetime, with respect to itself may be finite, but with respect to existence as a whole, it must be infinite.
                          Could be.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by robertb View Post
                            I suppose that a theist might, if they believed that the universe required a sustaining cause, try to claim that the universe is co-eternal with a sustaining cause. That said, I view the universe as static (in the sense I have been using) thus the universe does not need to come into or be held in existence from moment to moment - no cause required.
                            So when Scripture says that God did in fact create the universe and that He, through Christ, presently sustains it - that is all bunk?
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              So when Scripture says that God did in fact create the universe and that He, through Christ, presently sustains it - that is all bunk?
                              The necessity of a sustaining cause may have made perfect sense at the times the Scriptures were being written.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by robertb View Post
                                The necessity of a sustaining cause may have made perfect sense at the times the Scriptures were being written.
                                So again Scripture is wrong. BTW - how do you know this universe is self-sustaining?
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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