Celebrating Christmas

[NorrinRadd]

It doesn't because it isn't necessary. There are some environmental clues, and some historical ones that narrow it down to either a Spring or Fall time frame, but other than that, we just picked a day and stuck with it.

That part isn't true. The ancients believed that, at least for significant persons, the date and month of conception and the date and month of death were the same. So they calculated that if Jesus died in Spring, He must have been conceived in Spring, and born nine months later. The *exact* dates calculated varied by a couple of weeks or so, but Dec. 25 was the most common.

[rogue06]

So if it not in scripture why do it as its not supported by The Bible?
Its a Man made tradition not God made, so to speak.
BU

If you want to ignore it then do so.

[Faber]

That part isn't true. The ancients believed that, at least for significant persons, the date and month of conception and the date and month of death were the same. So they calculated that if Jesus died in Spring, He must have been conceived in Spring, and born nine months later. The *exact* dates calculated varied by a couple of weeks or so, but Dec. 25 was the most common.

That idea goes back to Hippolytus of Rome, AD 170 – 235.

It was Hippolytus's belief that, because Jesus was perfect, or because of Divine providence, His date of conception, His date of death and the creation of the world all had to occur on the same date, March 25. And nine months of gestation would bring the birth of the Savior to December 25. (Hippolytus, Eis Ton Daniel, 4.23.3. )

[rogue06]

And IIRC that is a result of switching from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian one.

And the selecting of December 25th has nothing to do with co-opting a pagan holiday

It seems more likely that the dating was influenced by the Jewish concept that great figures lived an exact number of years (dying on the day that they were conceived). Christians at least since the second century held that Jesus was conceived on March 25 (see Irenaeus' Adversus Haereses for instance) and hence born on December 25 based upon his having died on March 25 -- which was calculated to have coincided with 14 Nisan.

This also demonstrates that Christians were celebrating Christ's birthday on December 25 before the festival for Sol Invictus (Dies Natalis Solis Invicti) on Dec. 25 was only established c. 245 AD meaning that contrary to popular belief it appears that festival was actually later syncretized with Christmas rather than the other way around.

To elaborate, from something I wrote in response to some Jesus Mythers on another website a few years ago (and I might have posted here later):

A festival for Sol Invictus on Dec. 25 was only established c. 274 or 275 AD by an emperor who was not very friendly toward Christianity. Prior to that the traditional festival days varied throughout the Roman Empire and included August 8th and/or the 9th, possibly August 28th, and December 11th -- but never December 25th.

OTOH, Christians had been marking the birth of Christ as taking place on December 25th since at least 204 AD, as the Commentary on the prophet Daniel by Hippolytus of Rome (170 – 235 AD) attest.

The reason that December 25th was picked for Christ's birth was because the assumed date for His death (at least in the Western part of the Empire^[1]), since at least 200 AD, was March 25th^[2]. Back then it was assumed that truly righteous men lived a whole number of years, without fractions meaning that they died on the same day they were conceived on (see the Talmud for examples). In short, if He died on March 25th He was must have also been conceived on March 25th. Add 9 months to the date of conception and you arrive at December 25th as the date of birth.

The confusion arises over the fact that the earliest Christians weren't really into celebrating the birth of Christ (they were far more interested in His death)^[3] and Christmas celebrations really didn't get started in earnest until 379 or 380 at first in Constantinople and then started taking off in 386 after a sermon given by John Chrysostom. Because of this some scholars assumed that Christians took the date that the pagan festival of Sol Invictus took place on when in fact Christians had figured that Christmas took place on that day seven decades prior to the Romans appropriated the day.

Another fact to consider is that the first mention of a date for Christmas (c. 200) and the very earliest celebrations that we have records for (c. 250–300) come during a time when the persecuted Christian minority were not borrowing heavily from pagan traditions of such an obvious character but were taking great pains to distinguish themself from them. That practice didn't begin to change until after Constantine converted to Christianity.

IOW, December 25th as the date of Christ’s birth doesn't owe anything whatsoever to pagan influences but it arose entirely from the efforts of early Latin Christians to determine the historical date of Christ’s death.













1. In some parts of the East, especially in Asia Minor and in Egypt, they concluded that it was April 6th with the discrepancy being largely due to the difficulties of trying to translate an unfamiliar lunar calendar into a solar calendar.

2. Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) for one listed March 25th as the day of the conception of Jesus.

3. Origen of Alexandria (c. 165–264) actually mocked various Roman celebrations of birth anniversaries, dismissing them as a "pagan" practice.

[Sparko]

So if it not in scripture why do it as its not supported by The Bible?
Its a Man made tradition not God made, so to speak.
BU

You sound like a Jehovah's Witness. Are you?

We celebrate Christmas to remember Christ coming into the world to save us. We celebrate Easter to celebrate his resurrection. I think any day we celebrate Christ is a good day.

[rogue06]

I think any day we celebrate Christ is a good day.

That ^^^

[One Bad Pig]

To elaborate, from something I wrote in response to some Jesus Mythers on another website a few years ago (and I might have posted here later):

A festival for Sol Invictus on Dec. 25 was only established c. 274 or 275 AD by an emperor who was not very friendly toward Christianity. Prior to that the traditional festival days varied throughout the Roman Empire and included August 8th and/or the 9th, possibly August 28th, and December 11th -- but never December 25th.

OTOH, Christians had been marking the birth of Christ as taking place on December 25th since at least 204 AD, as the Commentary on the prophet Daniel by Hippolytus of Rome (170 – 235 AD) attest.

The reason that December 25th was picked for Christ's birth was because the assumed date for His death (at least in the Western part of the Empire^[1]), since at least 200 AD, was March 25th^[2]. Back then it was assumed that truly righteous men lived a whole number of years, without fractions meaning that they died on the same day they were conceived on (see the Talmud for examples). In short, if He died on March 25th He was must have also been conceived on March 25th. Add 9 months to the date of conception and you arrive at December 25th as the date of birth.

The confusion arises over the fact that the earliest Christians weren't really into celebrating the birth of Christ (they were far more interested in His death)^[3] and Christmas celebrations really didn't get started in earnest until 379 or 380 at first in Constantinople and then started taking off in 386 after a sermon given by John Chrysostom. Because of this some scholars assumed that Christians took the date that the pagan festival of Sol Invictus took place on when in fact Christians had figured that Christmas took place on that day seven decades prior to the Romans appropriated the day.

Another fact to consider is that the first mention of a date for Christmas (c. 200) and the very earliest celebrations that we have records for (c. 250–300) come during a time when the persecuted Christian minority were not borrowing heavily from pagan traditions of such an obvious character but were taking great pains to distinguish themself from them. That practice didn't begin to change until after Constantine converted to Christianity.

IOW, December 25th as the date of Christ’s birth doesn't owe anything whatsoever to pagan influences but it arose entirely from the efforts of early Latin Christians to determine the historical date of Christ’s death.



1. In some parts of the East, especially in Asia Minor and in Egypt, they concluded that it was April 6th with the discrepancy being largely due to the difficulties of trying to translate an unfamiliar lunar calendar into a solar calendar.

2. Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) for one listed March 25th as the day of the conception of Jesus.

3. Origen of Alexandria (c. 165–264) actually mocked various Roman celebrations of birth anniversaries, dismissing them as a "pagan" practice.

In the East, Christmas is the third most important feast behind Easter and Theophany. IIRC there are all of four birth commemorations on the Orthodox calendar: that of Jesus, Mary, John the Baptist, and St. Nicholas (the conceptions of Jesus, Mary, and John the Baptist are also commemorated).

[Jedidiah]

Where in the Bible does it tell us on what day Jesus was born?
BU

I do not know any Christian who believes that December 25th is the actual date of Jesus birth. What is celebrated is the fact of His coming.

[Jedidiah]

Thus not in the Text of Scripture?!
BU

You do not know what sarcasm is do you?

[Cow Poke]

Thus not in the Text of Scripture?!
BU

I don't know of anybody who claims Jesus was born on December 25. Sounds like you're going to be an "arguing from silence" advocate.

What's next? No pianos, cause they weren't mentioned in the Bible?

[rogue06]

I don't know of anybody who claims Jesus was born on December 25. Sounds like you're going to be an "arguing from silence" advocate.

What's next? No pianos, cause they weren't mentioned in the Bible?

We all need to leave North and South America and Australia since none of them are mentioned in the Bible.

[Sparko]

We all need to leave North and South America and Australia since none of them are mentioned in the Bible.

“Bible” is not mentioned in the Bible!

[Raphael]

I don't know of anybody who claims Jesus was born on December 25. Sounds like you're going to be an "arguing from silence" advocate.

What's next? No pianos, cause they weren't mentioned in the Bible?

I've actually seen a good argument for a December 25th / January 8th date that comes from a Jewish belief that a prophet departs this world on the same day of the year that he was conceived. When Jesus crucified? Passover. Which is on overage (depending on the lunar cycles) 9 months before Christmas.

It was in an old Parchment and Pen blog can't find it now, but here is another one that argues for the date for other reasons:
http://credohouse.org/blog/on-what-date-was-christ-born

This old Biblical Archaeology Review article delves into it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20091214.../christmas.asp

[Cow Poke]

I've actually seen a good argument for a December 25th / January 8th date that comes from a Jewish belief that a prophet departs this world on the same day of the year that he was conceived. When Jesus crucified? Passover. Which is on overage (depending on the lunar cycles) 9 months before Christmas.

It was in an old Parchment and Pen blog can't find it now, but here is another one that argues for the date for other reasons:
http://credohouse.org/blog/on-what-date-was-christ-born

This old Biblical Archaeology Review article delves into it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20091214.../christmas.asp

Agreed, I've also seen "good arguments", but I don't know of anybody who tries to make it a sticking point. Maybe that's what I should have said.

[Christianbookworm]

And IIRC that is a result of switching from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian one.

And the selecting of December 25th has nothing to do with co-opting a pagan holiday

It seems more likely that the dating was influenced by the Jewish concept that great figures lived an exact number of years (dying on the day that they were conceived). Christians at least since the second century held that Jesus was conceived on March 25 (see Irenaeus' Adversus Haereses for instance) and hence born on December 25 based upon his having died on March 25 -- which was calculated to have coincided with 14 Nisan.

This also demonstrates that Christians were celebrating Christ's birthday on December 25 before the festival for Sol Invictus (Dies Natalis Solis Invicti) on Dec. 25 was only established c. 245 AD meaning that contrary to popular belief it appears that festival was actually later syncretized with Christmas rather than the other way around.

But even if He were conceived on March 25, He still could have been born any time from mid December to early January.