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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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Celebrating Christmas

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  • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    The 144,000 will supposedly be in "heaven" the remaining "faithful" will be relegated to the New Earth.
    Yep, the 144K rule in heaven with God, while the rest of humanity is resurrected and lives on the New Earth in "Paradise" for 1000 years, until Satan is released to tempt mankind again. After that those who are not faithful on earth will be destroyed. The 144K are from all people from the time of Christ to the present. So you can imagine there are not many left. They used to teach that the last of the 144K were born in 1914 which was what Russell taught was the "spiritual Armageddon" when Christ began his reign in the Kingdom and that the end on earth would happen before that generation perished. They have since dropped that teaching since most of that generation has already died and nothing has happened yet. (they preached various Armageddon times in the past which kept failing.)

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    • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
      The 144,000 will supposedly be in "heaven" the remaining "faithful" will be relegated to the New Earth.
      O....kay, and that means not taking Communion how, exactly?
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        O....kay, and that means not taking Communion how, exactly?
        You will have to ask them. My guess is they think only the 144,000 are entitled to take communion, but I do not know. This is an area I have never investigated. I have looked at the JWs to a degree since my parents were/are JW.
        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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        • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
          You will have to ask them. My guess is they think only the 144,000 are entitled to take communion, but I do not know. This is an area I have never investigated. I have looked at the JWs to a degree since my parents were/are JW.
          Basically only the 144K are "saved" by Jesus' sacrifice. The rest have to earn salvation by following the rules, being good Christians and even after that, they have to pass a test 1000 years after Jesus returns. Basically everyone who is not wicked is resurrected, and everyone lives under Jesus' and the 144K's rule on earth. Then 1000 years later the devil is released to tempt mankind again. Those who pass the test get to live forever on New Earth in Paradise. The rest are destroyed.

          Last edited by Sparko; 12-28-2017, 07:50 AM.

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