Page 3 of 23 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 229

Thread: Celebrating Christmas

  1. #21
    tWebber GoBahnsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ca.
    Faith
    Unspecified
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    233
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    Can you actually give examples of this instead of asserting it?
    Examples of what? Not sure what you are after. Examples of churches having Christmas trees in their sanctuaries? Or do you mean documenting the tree as being a part of pagan tradition?

  2. #22
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Inside the beltway
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    15,630
    Amen (Given)
    5003
    Amen (Received)
    9144
    GB. Long time no see!
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  3. #23
    tWebber GoBahnsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ca.
    Faith
    Unspecified
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    233
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    GB. Long time no see!
    Yeah huh?

  4. #24
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,750
    Amen (Given)
    16574
    Amen (Received)
    3206
    Quote Originally Posted by GoBahnsen View Post
    Examples of what? Not sure what you are after. Examples of churches having Christmas trees in their sanctuaries? Or do you mean documenting the tree as being a part of pagan tradition?
    You said the Christmas tree, and other things have their roots in pagan rituals, which is what I wanted examples of. Every example I've researched turned out to be false so far.

  5. #25
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    slave & child of Christ
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    17,004
    Amen (Given)
    12454
    Amen (Received)
    7294
    Our "modern" Christmas tree has often been attributed to Martin Luther. It is said he was out walking one night and saw the stars shining through the branches of an evergreen, and brought one home and loaded it up with candles.

    Not so much pagan as "Ooh! Pretty!"


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  6. #26
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,750
    Amen (Given)
    16574
    Amen (Received)
    3206
    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Our "modern" Christmas tree has often been attributed to Martin Luther. It is said he was out walking one night and saw the stars shining through the branches of an evergreen, and brought one home and loaded it up with candles.

    Not so much pagan as "Ooh! Pretty!"
    I've heard a different version. One was that there were some pagans worshiping a tree, and a certain Saint went and cut it down, and placed an evergreen in it's place. He did this due to it pointing to God, and even the Trinity due to it's shape(being basically a triangle).

    I'll have to look it up.

  7. #27
    tWebber GoBahnsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ca.
    Faith
    Unspecified
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    233
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    You said the Christmas tree, and other things have their roots in pagan rituals, which is what I wanted examples of. Every example I've researched turned out to be false so far.
    Stuff like the quote below. From my scant knowledge of the subject, the debate of Christmas trees and Christianity has been a lively one over church history, especially with the Puritans.

    But no surprise that we wouldn't care much about it in a day and age where Homosexuals are in the pulpit. What's a Christmas tree? And BTW, I love homosexuals. We have two in our small Presbyterian church. We love them, but they are not allowed at the Lord's table until they repent.

    Anyway, I'm not gonna get worked up over the topic. If our church suddenly brought in a tree, I'd keep my mouth shut. I realize that people view them differently. Like I said, we have one in our living room and a lot of the ornaments are about Jesus.

    "In Europe, Pagans in the past did not cut down whole evergreen trees, bring them into their homes and decorate them. That would have been far too destructive of nature. But during the Roman celebration of the feast of Saturnalia, Pagans did decorate their houses with clippings of evergreen shrubs. They also decorated living trees with bits of metal and replicas of their God, Bacchus.

    Tertullian (circa 160 - 230), an early Christian leader and a prolific writer, complained that too many fellow-Christians had copied the Pagan practice of adorning their houses with lamps and with wreathes of laurel at Christmas time. 8,9,10,11"

  8. #28
    tWebber GoBahnsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ca.
    Faith
    Unspecified
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    233
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Our "modern" Christmas tree has often been attributed to Martin Luther. It is said he was out walking one night and saw the stars shining through the branches of an evergreen, and brought one home and loaded it up with candles.

    Not so much pagan as "Ooh! Pretty!"
    Yeah, some attribute the tree to Germany a few hundred years ago. Again, I'm like fine, go get a Christmas tree, but because of Church history, do we really need one inside the local church?

  9. #29
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    slave & child of Christ
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    17,004
    Amen (Given)
    12454
    Amen (Received)
    7294
    Quote Originally Posted by GoBahnsen View Post
    Yeah, some attribute the tree to Germany a few hundred years ago. Again, I'm like fine, go get a Christmas tree, but because of Church history, do we really need one inside the local church?
    I have one in my local church............right in my living room!



    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  10. Amen Cerebrum123, Jedidiah, Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
  11. #30
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,750
    Amen (Given)
    16574
    Amen (Received)
    3206
    Quote Originally Posted by GoBahnsen View Post
    Stuff like the quote below. From my scant knowledge of the subject, the debate of Christmas trees and Christianity has been a lively one over church history, especially with the Puritans.

    But no surprise that we wouldn't care much about it in a day and age where Homosexuals are in the pulpit. What's a Christmas tree? And BTW, I love homosexuals. We have two in our small Presbyterian church. We love them, but they are not allowed at the Lord's table until they repent.

    Anyway, I'm not gonna get worked up over the topic. If our church suddenly brought in a tree, I'd keep my mouth shut. I realize that people view them differently. Like I said, we have one in our living room and a lot of the ornaments are about Jesus.
    I'm not asking for anything more than a reference for your claims. Nothing to get worked up over.

    Oh, and really? Attempted well poisoning already?

    "In Europe, Pagans in the past did not cut down whole evergreen trees, bring them into their homes and decorate them. That would have been far too destructive of nature. But during the Roman celebration of the feast of Saturnalia, Pagans did decorate their houses with clippings of evergreen shrubs. They also decorated living trees with bits of metal and replicas of their God, Bacchus.

    Tertullian (circa 160 - 230), an early Christian leader and a prolific writer, complained that too many fellow-Christians had copied the Pagan practice of adorning their houses with lamps and with wreathes of laurel at Christmas time. 8,9,10,11"
    I find the quote repeated in a lot of places, and none of them give reliable sources so far except for the on concerning Tertullian. Tertullian's argument is rather bad actually. Apparently, in his mind, if you decorate an entrance, you are therefore worshiping the "god/demon of entrances".

    His argument backfires too, because God ordered the Israelites to make decorations for the Tabernacle at various places. If each has a demon associated with it, then God Himself ordered the Israelites to "worship" said demons with the "tokens" associated with each.

    Go to Chapter 15 of On Idolatry to see his thoughts about decorations. It just really doesn't make any sense.

    All of the sites that pop up use the argument that Jeremiah spoke against decorating trees.
    I mean, seriously? The verse they use is clearly about idols being worshiped, not ordinary decorations.

    I highly recommend Christmas is Pagan and Other Myths.

    The series isn't finished yet, but the video form starts here. It's a parody of "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas". The book is much more in depth though, so is better for checking things out. The two videos so far give a decent overview though.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoBahnsen View Post
    Yeah, some attribute the tree to Germany a few hundred years ago. Again, I'm like fine, go get a Christmas tree, but because of Church history, do we really need one inside the local church?
    Well, since that history doesn't seem to be what you think it is, I see no reason to object to a Christmas tree.

  12. Amen Christianbookworm, Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •