Mark 16:9

[Rdr. Arsenios]

George Blaisdell,

re: “Well, here is, historically, what you are up against...”

For the purpose of this topic, I don’t see why that is the case. I merely am looking for an author who argues for a change of observance from the seventh day to the first day because - at least in part - due to the idea of a first day resurrection, and who supports a first day resurrection with Mark 16:9.

Week-end Christianity is not a part of Holy Tradition... The early Church worshiped 7 days a week, and observed both the Sabbath AND the 8th Day of the Resurrection... This is the origin of our two day weekend to this day... But in the Orthodox monastic practice, services are still, to this day,seven days a week - And the Orthodox regard monastic practices to be Apostolic Christianity - The rest is simply watered down, by omission, from this standard, for those of the rest of us who live secular lives working and raising our families etc... For these, Sunday is the day of Resurrection, and is the mainstay of their weekly worshop, together with Saturday Vespers, which is itself a Sunday service...

The point here being that Sunday is the most important, the culmination, the climax and apex, as it were, of the previous 7 days... The Seven days represent the Law, you see, and the Eighth Day the Fulfillment of the Law in Christ... For by the Law was He put to death, and then arose the third day... The first day was Friday, when He died, for they did not want Him to die on the Sabbath, and the day of the Sabbath He entered into Hell and preached the Gospel there, and in the sunrise watch of the third day, which is the 1st of the Sabbath, He arose and appeared to Mary Magdeline... This is the day that is specifically Christian, you see... So does it REPLACE the Sabbath? Not at all... We keep the Sabbath holy, set apart unto God, yet now even apart from the Law, for we are not bound by the Law of Moses regarding works, as the Jews were, but still keep the Sabbath as a daay of preparation for the Sunday Service of the Resurrection...

In terms of the OP, this makes the proof of the place of the Sabbath and Sunday reasonably moot, because the proofs will all, including Mark 16:9, be found to come AFTER the establishment of the practice... And beyond that, time itself changes for the Eighth Day, because all days are now the Eighth Day, and indeed the early Church at each daily gathering celebrated the entirety of what we now take a week to celebrate... The Betrayal, by Judas, for instance, was included in the daily service, whereas now it is commemorated only on the day of its occurrence, which was Wednesday, and this is a day of strict Lenten fasting [normally] - If we for some reason do not keep this fast, we do not receive Communion on the following Sunday... The same with Friday, the day of the Crucifixion - A penitential day of fasting and tears... Saturday is the day of the Dead, for it was this day that Christ spent in Hades... The entire weekly structure of the Services of the Church reflect, commemorate, and participate in the events of the Life of Christ... Worship is about Christ... About His Life... His Life is NOT about His teachings - It is His teachings that are about His Life...

However, I do have a question with regard to your post:

re: “Mark 16:9 was written decades after the establishment of of Christ's New Covenant in His Body and Blood... The Church had shifted from the Old Covenant of marking the Sabbath as its holy day...”

I’m not aware of any scripture that says that the churches of God had stopped observing the seventh day prior to the writing of Mark. What do you have in mind?

See above - The Holy Day of the New Covenant of the Body and Blood of Christ is the Day of His Resurrection... The Sabbath in this New Covenant is the day of the dead, for only by entering into Christ's Death do we have the possibility of living His Resurrection... This Resurrection is the Eighth Day of the week of seven days, and so is "out of" time, and out of temporality - It is the present time - We live in the Eighth Day, for this day is the last days, indeed the day of Revelation... It has a certain timelessness to it, not constricted in linear fashion like a train from Nashville to Talahasee, but taking them both in according to Divine Providence...

I mean, if you manage to actually FIND some neo-scholastic scholar who builds a solid proof for the Sabbath and Sunday being either the same day or different, or supplanting or not each other, then THAT is all you will have... iow you will not have much, and what it is will not contribute to the salvation of your soul... Salvation is not what you think, you see... It is not what you are thinking... It is not doctrines... These are all for salvation, but are not salvation... Salvation is in the life lived...

So forgive me the rambling on and on...

It is just that "proving the Faith" is for me a matter of deeds, and not of words... And the OP seems more concerned with words...

Arsenios

[rstrats]

George Blaisdell,

re: “And the OP seems more concerned with words...”


Indeed it is. Perhaps someone new looking in will know of an author.

[rstrats]

Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of an author.

[Rdr. Arsenios]

So what happens when you find someone who knows of such an author?

A.

[rstrats]

George Blaisdell,

re: "So what happens when you find someone who knows of such an author?"

Hopefully I can get back to the poster mentioned in the OP.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Daniel7:14]

While the focus has been on the "first" day of the week - does anyone realize that it was the "7th day" from the evening of his triumphal entry until the morning of his resurrection? As we all know it was also the "3rd" day.

If you look at Genesis2:2, you will see that God "rested" from...ALL... his work on the "7th day".... I would suggest that Christ, having risen, "rested" from all his as well.

Genesis being "foundational" - we can also recognize that on the "first" day of Creation God commanded "light" to come forth out of the darkness - seems to me that Christ, being that "Light", also came forth out of darkness - on the "first" day of the week.

Mal. 3:6, "..I am the Lord....I change not..."

Bless,

Dan

[Rdr. Arsenios]

While the focus has been on the "first" day of the week - does anyone realize that it was the "7th day" from the evening of his triumphal entry until the morning of his resurrection? As we all know it was also the "3rd" day.

If you look at Genesis2:2, you will see that God "rested" from...ALL... his work on the "7th day".... I would suggest that Christ, having risen, "rested" from all his as well.

Genesis being "foundational" - we can also recognize that on the "first" day of Creation God commanded "light" to come forth out of the darkness - seems to me that Christ, being that "Light", also came forth out of darkness - on the "first" day of the week.

Mal. 3:6, "..I am the Lord....I change not..."

Bless,

Dan

We have Him in hell preaching to the dead on Saturday [day 7], and bringing them out on Sunday [day 1/8]

Christ did a lot of healing works on the Sabbath, so that his 'working' on the seventh day is not without precedent...
And the Sabbath was made by God for man, and not man for the Sabbath... As Christ said...

Arsenios

[Daniel7:14]

Correct my friend.

I certainly considered those very things.

While you mention those - don't "overlook" the fact that Christ did all that (statements as well) all while he was a..............MAN (with his God nature "veiled").

When Christ came out of the grave - He was...GOD...revealed (still in flesh - only glorified/eternal).

AS...GOD...Christ would remain...TRUE...to his nature. God...RESTED...on the 3rd day, from...ALL...his work.

Even as Col. 1:16 says, "...All things were made...BY...him and...FOR...him. Christ "created" all things to reflect his great provision. Rev. 14:8, "...written in the bood of life of the Lamb...SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD". (Please don't think I am screaming, I'm not...I do not know how to "emphasize" another way).

The day of his resurrection was: the 1st day of the week (Gen. 1:5, Light); the 3rd day (Gen. 1:13, ...Earth bring forth...); the 7th day (Gen. 2:2, ...RESTED...)...and the 8th day (Lev. 9:4, :23). It would be the 8th day from the day of his triumphal entry.

It was also 42 days from his crucifixion to his ascension, 50 days to Pentecost, 52 days from crucifixion to Pentecost (Neh. 6:15, "..wall was finished in 52 days).

All laid "...from the foundation of the world..."

Bless,

Dan

[rstrats]

Daniel7:14,

re: “The day of his resurrection...would be the 8th day from the day of his triumphal entry.”


What would be the first day from His triumphal entry?

[Rdr. Arsenios]

When Christ came out of the grave - He was...GOD...revealed (still in flesh - only glorified/eternal)

He was the Person of God in His death, and He was the Son of Man in His Resurrection...

He UNITED the two natures of God and man in His incarnation, and that did not change in His Resurrection, for it was by His Resurrection that Salvation comes to all flesh [mankind] on earth...

You cannot divide Christ into God vs man...

Arsenios

[Daniel7:14]

rs,

Christ entered Jerusalem during the day on Sunday, the 10th day of the month, according to Ex. 12:3, "...,In the tenth day of this month they shall take every man a lamb...a lamb for a house. The reason God ordained this to Moses was because Christ had already declared his work of salvation - "before the foundation of the world". This would be the "day" Christ was "taken" into the house, the House of God (Lk. 19:46).

Christ...DID NOT...mirror the Passover Lamb................................The Passover Lamb was a reflection of what Christ had already declared in the Eternal realm, before the foundation of the world. The lamb was taken in on the 10th because Christ would be taken in on the 10th.

You will also note Ex. 12:6, that the "lamb" is to be slain, in the evening, on the 14th day of the same month. Check your calendar, that would fall on a Thursday, NOT...Friday.

With the onset of the evening on that day of his triumphal entry, a new day would begin, Mk:11:11. That evening would be the beginning of the "next" 7 days, culminating in the resurrection on Sunday morning.

As you correctly surmise, with the Sunday morning resurrection, it would be 8 days from his triumphal entry. It would be the 7th day, it would be the 1st day, and it would be the 3rd day. All that aligning with Genesis, and Creation.

That's why I offered Col. 1:16, "...by him and....FOR....him"


George,

I do not disagree with you, it could be that I mis-spoke, or spoke poorly.

I said that his God nature was "veiled". Else all those that saw him would be dead, "...no man has seen God and lived... Ex. 33:20 ". When he arose, he was...STILL...100% man, except that man was now...glorified and eternal, however, being also 100% God, that was no longer "veiled".

With Christ now being "revealed" as God, why wouldn't he respond in agreement with who he was? God rested the 7th day.

You can find how all this "agrees" by considering Gen. 1:5 - 2:2. Foundational concept of how God, through Christ, ordained time to be structured.

Bless you all,

Dan

.

[Daniel7:14]

George,

I apologize, in my original post I did mis-speak. I said that God "rested" from all his work on the 3rd day - I hope you know I meant to say, "...on the 7th day, God rested from all his work...", Gen. 2:2.

[rstrats]

Daniel7:14,

re: “Christ entered Jerusalem during the day on Sunday...”

Assuming by Sunday you mean the first day of the week, then the second day of the week would be the 1st day FROM the day of the Messiah’s entry; the third day of the week would be the 2nd day from the entry; the fourth day of the week would be the 3rd day from the entry; the fifth day of the week would be the 4th day from the entry; the sixth day of the week would be the 5th day from the entry; the seventh day of the week would be the 6th day from the entry, which would make the next 1st day of the week the 7th day from the entry and not the 8th day as you suggested in your previous post.

[Daniel7:14]

rs,

You seem to have offered an apparent contradiction to my post...permit me to express it in this manner:

Sunday (during the day, 10th day of the month) - Triumphal entry - Sir Robert Anderson "calculates" this is the completion of the "first" 69 weeks of Daniel (to the day).

Sunday evening begins an new day
Sunday evening to Monday evening = day 1 - (11th)
Monday evening to Tuesday evening = day 2 - (12th)
Tuesday evening to Wednesday evening = day 3 - (13th)
Wednesday evening to Thursday evening = day 4 - (14th) - day of the sacrifice: Ex. 12:6, "...shall kill it in the evening..."

IF: Wed. eve to Thur. eve. is the 4th day, what "count" would you have - "half-way" - between those two evenings? I am referring to - "sunrise" - on Thursday morning. Christ was crucified that evening - but he was brought befor Pilate with the sunrise that morning. The timeline would be - ...3 1/2 days... - from the evening of his triumphal entry to that point in time.

Thursday evening to Friday evening = day 5 - (15th) (This is the Feast day - and - Friday evening brings the onset of the Sabbath)
Friday evening to Saturday evening = day 6 - (16th)
Saturday evening to...........................................SUNDAY MORNING = DAY 7 (17th).

From the...EVENING...of his triumphal entry, it is 7 days, the...FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK...
From the...DAY..........of his triumphal entry, it is 8 days, the...FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK...
From his crucifixion Thursday evening........it is 3 days and 3 nights.......until his resurrection......THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.

While I offered you "evening to evening". Genesis says, "...the evening...and the morning...", were the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd day. Genesis says that the "day" has two components, first the evening and then the morning.

IF you "count" from Thursday evening to Sunday morning, you will get 3 nights and 3 days and with the onset of morning....it will still be the 3rd day, Lk. 24:21.

[Daniel7:14]

(cont)

If you look we are "counting" - two - Sundays - one with his entry and the other with his resurrection...so that has to give us...8 days...

That is why it is so important that the scripture notes in Mk. 11:11, "...Jesus ...entered the Temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the...EVENTIDE...was come.." Scripture informs us that a "new day" had begun. This verse begins the "timeline" for the last week of the earthly ministry of Christ, from Sunday evening until Sunday morning.

In attempting to confirm the "first" day resurrection, or even the triumphal entry, it is easier to visualize by beginning with Sunday morning resurrection and "working" back.......through the week.

This timeline I am offering also aligns Daniel's criteria of... "times, time and half-time..."

It is absolutely all connected..................imagine, the word, the gift of God, being in complete harmony?

Bless

Dan