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Is Sola Scritura from Scripture?

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  • Is Sola Scritura from Scripture?

    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    If you think it[Sola Scriptura] is [in Scripture], please show it.
    I am going to give you three answers, they are not exhaustive.

    1) The term "Sola Scritura" like the term "Trinity" is not to be found in Holy Scripture. But these teachings are found in the written word of God.

    2) Without the Holy Scripture there is no Christianity.

    3) The Apostle Peter cited that the word of God was given verbally. And argued that he and the Apostles were not following fables. And that the written (Scripture) was the sure word of God. {2 Peter 1:16-21.}
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

  • #2
    The canon was not complete at this time. 2 Peter was likely the last book in the NT to be written (or maybe Revelation) but even at this time, the church had not firmly determined what books would make the canon, so I don't think it would have made a lot of sense for these verses to explicitly refer to the canon.

    I think the reference to "prophets" in 2 Peter is likely to the Old Testament prophets. It doesn't seem to me like Peter is talking about himself there.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      The canon was not complete at this time.
      Paul's writings were already accepted as being Scripture.
      And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
      (2 Peter 3:15-16 ESV)
      The brutal, soul-shaking truth is that we are so earthly minded we are of no heavenly use.
      Leonard Ravenhill

      https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        The canon was not complete at this time. 2 Peter was likely the last book in the NT to be written (or maybe Revelation) but even at this time, the church had not firmly determined what books would make the canon, so I don't think it would have made a lot of sense for these verses to explicitly refer to the canon.

        I think the reference to "prophets" in 2 Peter is likely to the Old Testament prophets. It doesn't seem to me like Peter is talking about himself there.
        No. Peter referenced himself twice in that context {2 Peter 1:16-21} verse 16, "we," and verse 18.

        Also, Holy Scripture is Holy Scripture upon being written, not when some irregular churches' councils say so.

        Personally I believe the close of the writing of the written word of God occurred with the writing of the prophecy of the book of Revelation.
        Last edited by 37818; 11-25-2015, 07:52 AM.
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by theophilus View Post
          Paul's writings were already accepted as being Scripture.
          And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
          (2 Peter 3:15-16 ESV)
          This seems like the sort of thing that requires a closer examination of translations. The word "Scripture" after all, has the same etymological root as the word "script"-- basically, just meaning something that has been written down. I should like to know the Greek word here.
          Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            I am going to give you three answers, they are not exhaustive.

            1) The term "Sola Scritura" like the term "Trinity" is not to be found in Holy Scripture. But these teachings are found in the written word of God.
            This is not an answer; this is an assertion.
            2) Without the Holy Scripture there is no Christianity.
            True (as far as the OT, at any rate), but this does not in any way answer the question.
            3) The Apostle Peter cited that the word of God was given verbally. And argued that he and the Apostles were not following fables.
            Which, if anything, refutes your position as scripture is written, not verbal. Jesus said and did much more than was written (John 21:25).
            And that the written (Scripture) was the sure word of God. {2 Peter 1:16-21.}
            This is also true, but does not in any way address the question.

            You have not yet proffered any answers.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
              This seems like the sort of thing that requires a closer examination of translations. The word "Scripture" after all, has the same etymological root as the word "script"-- basically, just meaning something that has been written down. I should like to know the Greek word here.
              γραφή (per blueletterbible.org - and the same word used in chapter 1, btw)
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #8
                Please correct me if I am wrong here. Does not the doctrine of Sola Scripura tell us that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice? If this is true then what is the problem with the concept. This does not mean that we can not learn, or be advised from other sources. It only means that the Bible trumps the other sources when there is a conflict.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  Please correct me if I am wrong here. Does not the doctrine of Sola Scripura tell us that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice? If this is true then what is the problem with the concept. This does not mean that we can not learn, or be advised from other sources. It only means that the Bible trumps the other sources when there is a conflict.
                  Sola Scriptura tells us that the Bible is the only authority (though, in the eyes of most who hold to the doctrine, we can learn or be advised from other sources). It was first formulated during the Reformation, as far as I know, in rejection of the Roman Catholic Church's assertion of authority.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    This is not an answer; this is an assertion.
                    Is the "assertion" false? If so explain why that statement is not true?

                    True (as far as the OT, at any rate), but this does not in any way answer the question.
                    Which, if anything, refutes your position as scripture is written, not verbal. Jesus said and did much more than was written (John 21:25).
                    Seriously? Peter explained what was written was what was spoken {1 Peter 1:20-21}.

                    This is also true, but does not in any way address the question.
                    It seems to be because you reject Sola Scriptura as true.

                    You have not yet proffered any answers.
                    That would seem to be because you reject the concept[Sola Scriptura] as true.

                    Acts 17:11,
                    . . . in that they received the [spoken] word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
                    From the Old Testament no less, since at that time none of the New Testament was yet written.
                    Last edited by 37818; 11-25-2015, 09:20 PM.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      Is the "assertion" false? If so explain why that statement is not true?
                      You're the one who made the assertion; prove it.
                      Seriously? Peter explained what was written was what was spoken {1 Peter 1:20-21}.
                      Source: 1 Pet 1:20-21 NKJV

                      20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      I don't understand how that passage supports your statement in any way. Further, I reiterate that what was written was far less than what was spoken (John 21:25).

                      It seems to be because you reject Sola Scriptura as true.

                      That would seem to be because you reject the concept[Sola Scriptura] as true.
                      While I reject sola scriptura, I'm telling you that you have not yet proffered any answers because you in fact have not yet done so. I'm still waiting for any sort of supported answer.
                      Acts 17:11,
                      . . . in that they received the [spoken] word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
                      From the Old Testament no less, since at that time none of the New Testament was yet written.
                      Yes, that is from the Old Testament. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with it, as I quite agree that the Scriptures are authoritative.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OBP,

                        That reference should have been 2nd Peter,
                        2 Peter 1:20-21,
                        . . . Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Spirit.


                        What do you think Sola Scritura means?

                        I understand it to mean the written word of God is the sure word of God and therefore should be regarded as the final authority in all matters of the Christian's beliefs and practices. It is not the only words of God.
                        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          OBP,

                          That reference should have been 2nd Peter,
                          2 Peter 1:20-21,
                          . . . Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Spirit.


                          What do you think Sola Scritura means?
                          Look up-thread.

                          I understand it to mean the written word of God is the sure word of God and therefore should be regarded as the final authority in all matters of the Christian's beliefs and practices. It is not the only words of God.
                          If it is not the only words of God, why should it be regarded as the final authority? How can other words of God be less authoritative? Scripture was not written to be the final authority in all matters; it was written to address specific situations. Paul does not hold up his writings as the final standard, but what he had taught in speech.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post

                            If it is not the only words of God, why should it be regarded as the final authority?
                            For one: God spoke the universe into existence. Natural revelation (Psalm 19:1-4; Romans 10:17-18). They do not tell us of the gospel of Christ.
                            The Apostles are no longer here to follow their spoken instructions (2 Thessalonians 3:6). As for the speaking gifts, the word of knowledge, gifts of prophecy and the speaking in languages (translated) through which God the Holy Spirit gives/gave (1 Corinthians 12: & 14:), this an issue which Christians disagree on as to their current status (1 Corinthians 13: Revelation 1:1-3; 19:10; 22:18-19). It is regarded as a secondary issue is it not?

                            How can other words of God be less authoritative?
                            All the words of God are authoritative (Matthew 4:4).
                            Only the written Holy Scripture [our 66 book Old and New Testament] tells us of the gospel of Christ.

                            Scripture was not written to be the final authority in all matters; it was written to address specific situations. Paul does not hold up his writings as the final standard, but what he had taught in speech.
                            Says who?

                            Holy Scripture [our 66 book Old and New Testament] unless it is the final authority for the Christian faith and practice - what is left is just a man made religion without foundation from God.

                            You or I [or anyone else] as interpreters of Holy Scripture are not any kind of final authority what the texts mean.

                            There are five tenets to the Christian faith which are core to it:

                            1. Bible alone - 2 Timothy 3:14-17 - 2 Peter 1:19, 20-21.
                            2. Faith alone - Ephesians 2:8-10; Romans 5:1-2
                            3. Grace alone - Titus 3:7
                            4. Christ alone - Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5-6 - Matthew 28:18 Revelation 19:10.
                            5. Glory to God alone - 1 Corinthians 10:31 Romans 11:33-36

                            Which can be summarized with the following statement:
                            Our salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to the authority of Scripture alone, for the glory of God alone.

                            And the phenomena is, those who agree on all five, also agree on all the other essentials of the Christian faith.

                            Do you have one proof against this?
                            Last edited by 37818; 12-03-2015, 04:15 PM.
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              For one: God spoke the universe into existence. Natural revelation (Psalm 19:1-4; Romans 10:17-18). They do not tell us of the gospel of Christ.
                              The Apostles are no longer here to follow their spoken instructions (2 Thessalonians 3:6). As for the speaking gifts, the word of knowledge, gifts of prophecy and the speaking in languages (translated) through which God the Holy Spirit gives/gave (1 Corinthians 12: & 14:), this an issue which Christians disagree on as to their current status (1 Corinthians 13: Revelation 1:1-3; 19:10; 22:18-19). It is regarded as a secondary issue is it not?

                              All the words of God are authoritative (Matthew 4:4).
                              Only the written Holy Scripture [our 66 book Old and New Testament] tells us of the gospel of Christ with any certainty.

                              Says who?

                              Holy Scripture [our 66 book Old and New Testament] unless it is the final authority for the Christian faith and practice - what is left is just a man made religion without foundation from God.

                              You or I [or anyone else] as interpreters of Holy Scripture are not any kind of final authority what the texts mean.

                              There are five tenets to the Christian faith which are core to it:

                              1. Bible alone - 2 Timothy 3:14-17 - 2 Peter 1:19, 20-21.
                              2. Faith alone - Ephesians 2:8-10; Romans 5:1-2
                              3. Grace alone - Titus 3:7
                              4. Christ alone - Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5-6 - Matthew 28:18 Revelation 19:10.
                              5. Glory to God alone - 1 Corinthians 10:31 Romans 11:33-36

                              Which can be summarized with the following statement:
                              Our salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to the authority of Scripture alone, for the glory of God alone.

                              And the phenomena is, those who agree on all five, also agree on all the other essentials of the Christian faith.

                              Do you have one proof against this?
                              Upon what authority have you determined that the Bible includes these and only these 66 books?
                              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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