Home Sweet Home

[James Peter]

Oh how I've missed this place...

Anyway, to avoid this being spam I'd like you guys to check some Hebrew of mine out. Its been a while and my memory is still being all funky and besides which I'm used to reading Hebrew not writing it...

Anyway, the phrase I'm shooting for is 'Exile of El'

I think that should correctly be transliterated as Mugleh-El (and pronounced kinda like Moogley-El) but I've probably made a mistake...

Anyway, its supposed to be the Hof. Participle (ms) from gimel lamed he...

John? Howie? Merci.

[John Reece]

Oh how I've missed this place...

Anyway, to avoid this being spam I'd like you guys to check some Hebrew of mine out. Its been a while and my memory is still being all funky and besides which I'm used to reading Hebrew not writing it...

Anyway, the phrase I'm shooting for is 'Exile of El'

I think that should correctly be transliterated as Mugleh-El (and pronounced kinda like Moogley-El) but I've probably made a mistake...

Anyway, its supposed to be the Hof. Participle (ms) from gimel lamed he...

John? Howie? Merci.

Muglē-El.

[James Peter]

I was concerned about the short e in an open syllable at the end of the Mugleh but according to the table of weak verbs I looked up that really is how that particular form works. I also hazily remember some sort of exception being mentioned in a lecture when I asked about it but don't have my notes handy.

Are you suggesting that the he disappears entirely and the lamed takes a sere? We really need to get decent greek and hebrew fonts on here!

[John Reece]

I was concerned about the short e in an open syllable at the end of the Mugleh but according to the table of weak verbs I looked up that really is how that particular form works. I also hazily remember some sort of exception being mentioned in a lecture when I asked about it but don't have my notes handy.

Are you suggesting that the he disappears entirely and the lamed takes a sere? We really need to get decent greek and hebrew fonts on here!

I'm sorry, I put it in plural construct state.

[James Peter]

Ahh, that makes sense. So does that mean that I actually got it right then? I'm pretty sure there is only one of me and so I should be using the singular participle...

[John Reece]

I'm sorry, I put it in plural construct state.

Since I can't see how to edit posts in this new version of TWeb, I'll add a postscript.

The 'he' is retained in the singular, and the 'e' is lengthed in construct state.

My revised response is Muglēh-El.

The 'u' is pronounced as in jug.

[Howie]

JP,

My take is that you are as right as can be given that the phrase has no context. The writings of Arian Verheij are a great resource for these issues.

On a side note, I have followed John's posts on various terms... is this version of TWeb creating probllems in displaying the Greek and Hebrew? I hope not... even though I never mastered the technique!

All the best.

[James Peter]

I just want fonts that allow accents (in greek) and vowel pointings to actually display underneath letters (in hebrew) rather than what we have now.

The 'context' is for my new avatar and is essentially a self-description. I guess it just desribes my current state of mind, I feel like I am forced outside the Church for the sake of God or perhaps that God has forced me out.... I don't know really. I'm quite mixed and it hurts to think so don't expect anything coherant from me.

[John Reece]

On a side note, I have followed John's posts on various terms... is this version of TWeb creating probllems in displaying the Greek and Hebrew?

Whenever TWeb makes a major site change my language threads are scrambled.

There are old threads that were done using Unicode for Hebrew and Greek; then TWeb did a major site change and everything written in Unicode was forever scrambled.

Now the TWeb language tags no longer work.

[James Peter]

I hereby move that instead of fixing the old ones we have either SGreek and SHebrew or better yet the Biblework fonts added. A font that isn't big and ugly would be so....pleasant.

[John Reece]

I hereby move that instead of fixing the old ones we have either SGreek and SHebrew or better yet the Biblework fonts added. A font that isn't big and ugly would be so....pleasant.

The reason the TWeb Greek is so "big and ugly" is that the Hebrew and Greek letter sizes are locked together.

I asked $crisme to make the Hebrew large enough to for me to read easily, which he did; and when he did the Greek became the "big and ugly" size we have had ever since. When I saw how large the Greek became when the Hebrew was enlarged, I asked $cirisme about it and he said the Greek size could not be separated from the Hebrew size: If either is enlarged, both are enlarged; if either is reduced in size, both are reduced in size.

Here is what the Hebrew looked like before my requested enlargement (without the vowel pointings; the text is copied and pasted from another site):

בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ.

Testing edit option

[James Peter]

Ok, big and ugly and legible is better than tiny and eyestraining. I can dream about having real greek fonts though....let me dream....

[Rupert Pupkin]

FYI: The nearest example in the OT is Jer 40:1, second last word, where it is plural with the article attached.

I was concerned about the short e in an open syllable at the end of the Mugleh but according to the table of weak verbs I looked up that really is how that particular form works.

According to Kelley (Biblical Hebrew: An Introductory Grammar), all Lamed He verbs that are masculine singular participles and are in the absolute state end in segol-he, but that is changed to tsere-he in the construct state (page 287). Hence since you want the construct, the "eh" ending should be tsere-he. So it's not a short e.

The 'he' is retained in the singular, and the 'e' is lengthed in construct state.

John is correct here. It should be mugleh-el with the "e" in the mugleh being tsere.

[Howie]

Wow! This thread is like those supermarket tabloids! I have learned that John is responsible for those big ugly Hebrew-glyphs!

JP, I am not ignoring your questioning… I just sense that the issue is not ready for any public airing. It reflects questions of mine of a while back. I have great faith that when the dust settles you will discover an understanding solid enough to withstand the most violent tempest of doubt. Your passion for truth is so intense it will not fail.

All the best.

[James Peter]

We'll see.