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Islam Extremism is Hurting Christianity

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  • Islam Extremism is Hurting Christianity

    I haven't been around much, and that's because I simply haven't found much on the forum lately that interests me, and with the shrinking numbers of posters maybe this is as good a time to start actively posting issues that I think are worthy of attention as any.

    It occurs to me that in all the chaos of the recent Paris attacks and bad will towards Islam within the last decade or so, that religion in general is suffering. It doesn't matter if you are the most patient and practical Christian or the most insect loving Jainist, the recent spate of Islamic extremism is dirtying the name of religion. Secularists look at these attacks and while many acknowledge that it's an issue with a particular branch of extremism, many seem to group all religions in the same bucket. It seems to me that this is something that ought to be highlighted and discussed. Often times it seems in these situations that Christians are so busy pointing fingers at the violence inherent in the Islamic religion (and I believe rightfully so), that they miss the fact that the secular West is singing John Lennon's Imagine, with its desire for no religion at all. Are we, as Christians, not seeing this bigger picture and how Islamic violence impacts us all? Ultimately I believe that God is in control, still these are issues that it seems to me we ought to be more cognizant about.

    This is an open discussion, but I ask ahead of time for some temperance in debate. Thank you.
    Last edited by Adrift; 11-25-2015, 11:33 PM.

  • #2
    Adrift! Happy Thanksgiving!

    Now I have something to ponder in my post-tryptophan haze.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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    • #3
      Not sure that's the case. It seems the right is expressing the most animosity towards Islam, whereas the left seems strangely empathetic.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seanD View Post
        Not sure that's the case. It seems the right is expressing the most animosity towards Islam, whereas the left seems strangely empathetic.
        I think the left is sympathetic to individual Muslims but not as much to Islam as a whole. My theory is it's part of their tendency to support the underdog. (Or in some cases, I suspect individual leftists just don't know much about Islam.)

        Left-wing Europe is seeing populist opposition to Islam as a whole, i.e. French bans on head scarves, even as their governments officially roll out the welcome mat to the booming Muslim population.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          I haven't been around much, and that's because I simply haven't found much on the forum lately that interests me, and with the shrinking numbers of posters maybe this is as good a time to start actively posting issues that I think are worthy of attention as any.

          It occurs to me that in all the chaos of the recent Paris attacks and bad will towards Islam within the last decade or so, that religion in general is suffering. It doesn't matter if you are the most patient and practical Christian or the most insect loving Jainist, the recent spate of Islamic extremism is dirtying the name of religion. Secularists look at these attacks and while many acknowledge that it's an issue with a particular branch of extremism, many seem to group all religions in the same bucket. It seems to me that this is something that ought to be highlighted and discussed. Often times it seems in these situations that Christians are so busy pointing fingers at the violence inherent in the Islamic religion (and I believe rightfully so), that they miss the fact that the secular West is singing John Lennon's Imagine, with its desire for no religion at all. Are we, as Christians, not seeing this bigger picture and how Islamic violence impacts us all? Ultimately I believe that God is in control, still these are issues that it seems to me we ought to be more cognizant about.

          This is an open discussion, but I ask ahead of time for some temperance in debate. Thank you.
          I see what you are saying...and it's true to a certain degree. There is certainly an "undercurrent" of anti-religion being seen all around. I've seen it here on Tweb specifically. However, God is using radical Islam to drive many toward Christianity. It seems that many of the Muslims are becoming so fed up with Islam that they are turning to Christianity because it Christianity IS the true religion of Peace.

          Source: Israelislamandendtimes.com

          THE ATROCITIES witnessed by those living in Northern Iraq has caused many of them to reject Islam and to convert to Christianity as a result of seeing the kindness displayed by Christians....One refugee told CBN News he spent eight days trapped on Sinjar Mountain. He’s a recent Christian convert so we’re calling him “Shamo” to protect his identity. Shamo says he witnessed terrorists kill 170 Yazidi men, then take their wives and daughters away to be sold or used as sex slaves. He says he wants nothing to do with Islam because of ISIS and the atrocities committed by Muslims he once considered friends.

          © Copyright Original Source



          http://www.israelislamandendtimes.co...-actions-isis/
          "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

          "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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          • #6
            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            Not sure that's the case. It seems the right is expressing the most animosity towards Islam, whereas the left seems strangely empathetic.
            Yes,
            Thus Republicans are now more likely to affirm their Christianity as opposed to Islam, and it is the Democrats (Obama, anyway) who timidly won't say "radical Islam". By refusing to acknowledge (the truth of) it as a religious issue, the Left is not using hatred of Islam as a rallying cry against religion.
            Adrift makes good sense. But people don't, so you can't reason out some things.
            Near the Peoples' Republic of Davis, south of the State of Jefferson (Suspended between Left and Right)

            Comment


            • #7
              There are two major narratives about the relationship between religion and violence and, by extension, the possibility of Islamic assimilation into the West.

              The first is that religious beliefs are readily manipulated by geopolitical forces to advance their own ends. One example of this view can be found in this piece, which, if I can be forgiven for painting with a brush, regards radical Islam as a result of Saudi Arabia's attempts to build up its own influence in the region: the radical Wahabist school of Islam which they spread in order to help unify the region... now threatens to unify the region, though perhaps independent of the established and corrupt Saudi monarchy: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alasta...b_5717157.html

              Another example: earlier this year, a former KGB official claimed that the KGB was responsible for liberation theology in Latin America. What these have in common is that religion is manipulated by and is made to justify a sociopolitical order. Religion tends to be sort of amorphous and neutral. Nearly any religion can conceivably be a "religion of peace," depending on the ascendant geopolitical forces, and the resources a religion brings forward-- or pulls out of thin air, if need be-- depends on what those forces demand.

              The other paradigm is of religion as having inherent qualities. Rather than religion adapting itself to the times, a religion's deepest qualities will inescapably assert themselves in history: religious ideas have consequences.

              Probably the best example of this paradigm is Pope Benedict's Regensberg address, which argued that the West has been formed by the interaction of Jewish religion with Greek philosophy, and that Christianity's capacity to set aside violence is a result of its embrace of rationality. The speech does not itself denounce Islam as rejecting rationality, but it does say that, without giving reason a role in religion, it cannot expect to end the use of violence in the name of Islam.

              There are also those who have argued that Islam has already repeatedly, even conclusively rejected reason in theological contexts such that it is irreparably violent. I think I've seen a few people around here argue for it, and I've definitely seen a few essays in conservative circles arguing that thesis. It's also an argument in the wheelhouse of the militant "new atheists," but I've definitely seen it more often among religious conservatives than secular liberals.
              Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                Secularists look at these attacks and while many acknowledge that it's an issue with a particular branch of extremism, many seem to group all religions in the same bucket.
                There's a pretty vigorous debate going on between and among secular thinkers on the subject of whether Islam should be considered "worse" than Christianity or not, and what the West's general response to it should be, and what sort of responses are or aren't acceptable. People like Sam Harris, Noam Chomsky, Glenn Greenwald, Bill Maher etc have had pretty extensive (and acrimonious) arguments on the topic. They span the spectrum from neo-con to non-interventionist, and I think it's fair to say that secular people generally span the full spectrum in their response to Islam and terrorism, and that there's no particular single 'secular' position on it.

                That said, I think the average secular person does tend to start off their approach the topic with the view of "well, they're religious, what can you expect? Of course they're all nuts." Whereas the average Christian starts off their approach to the topic with the view of "of course Christianity is morally superior to Islam, that goes without saying". And I don't think either of those positions are really all that self-evident at all. For starters, any Christian who holds the divine command theory of morality lacks a logical foundation for comparing the morality of two different religions where God commands two different sets of things.

                they miss the fact that the secular West is singing John Lennon's Imagine, with its desire for no religion at all.
                I agree with your general thought process here - the existence of religious violence is probably quite a big factor currently that is pushing quite a few people in the world away from religion. I suspect in the West this century there have been 3 primary factors that have turned people off religion: Gay rights, Pedophile priests, and Islamic extremism.


                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I think the left is sympathetic to individual Muslims but not as much to Islam as a whole.
                That's a good way of putting it. I've seen multiple people on the left say that we need to be very careful to separate out Muslims the people from Islam the religion and Islamism the particular radical extremist ideas that seek to impose Islam on the rest of the world - and that we need to treat the Muslim people with kindness and compassion, tolerate Islam the religion, and oppose Islamism. It's a bit like the "hate the sin, love the sinner" idea.
                Last edited by Starlight; 11-26-2015, 01:52 AM.
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                Comment


                • #9
                  Islamic extremism exposes the real nature of Islam and this gives Christians an opportunity to show that Christianity is an alternative. In Iraq many Muslims are converting to Christianity as a result:

                  http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...o-Christianity
                  The brutal, soul-shaking truth is that we are so earthly minded we are of no heavenly use.
                  Leonard Ravenhill

                  https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                    I haven't been around much, and that's because I simply haven't found much on the forum lately that interests me, and with the shrinking numbers of posters maybe this is as good a time to start actively posting issues that I think are worthy of attention as any.

                    It occurs to me that in all the chaos of the recent Paris attacks and bad will towards Islam within the last decade or so, that religion in general is suffering. It doesn't matter if you are the most patient and practical Christian or the most insect loving Jainist, the recent spate of Islamic extremism is dirtying the name of religion. Secularists look at these attacks and while many acknowledge that it's an issue with a particular branch of extremism, many seem to group all religions in the same bucket. It seems to me that this is something that ought to be highlighted and discussed. Often times it seems in these situations that Christians are so busy pointing fingers at the violence inherent in the Islamic religion (and I believe rightfully so), that they miss the fact that the secular West is singing John Lennon's Imagine, with its desire for no religion at all. Are we, as Christians, not seeing this bigger picture and how Islamic violence impacts us all? Ultimately I believe that God is in control, still these are issues that it seems to me we ought to be more cognizant about.

                    This is an open discussion, but I ask ahead of time for some temperance in debate. Thank you.
                    You want a solution to stoping Radical Islam...Have the Christian presidents and the Christian congress stop supporting Wahabism and the country that funds Wahabism and maybe just MAYBE if there is a regime change in the country that supports wahabism, radical Islam as you like to call it may begin to die down.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Presumably by the Radical Islamists taking over the country that bred it? Talk about the Cure Being Worse than the Disease!
                      Last edited by Adam; 11-26-2015, 02:28 PM.
                      Near the Peoples' Republic of Davis, south of the State of Jefferson (Suspended between Left and Right)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mrcurious View Post
                        You want a solution to stoping Radical Islam...Have the Christian presidents and the Christian congress stop supporting Wahabism and the country that funds Wahabism and maybe just MAYBE if there is a regime change in the country that supports wahabism, radical Islam as you like to call it may begin to die down.
                        That's not going to happen. Americans want cheap oil more than anything else.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          That's not going to happen. Americans want cheap oil more than anything else.
                          Then Americans should support the Keystone pipeline since Canada is the America's biggest non-domestic supplier.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mrcurious View Post
                            You want a solution to stoping Radical Islam...Have the Christian presidents and the Christian congress stop supporting Wahabism and the country that funds Wahabism and maybe just MAYBE if there is a regime change in the country that supports wahabism, radical Islam as you like to call it may begin to die down.
                            All for Wahabis.

                            They go great on a salad.

                            And they're wonderful grave fillers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Adam View Post
                              Yes,
                              Thus Republicans are now more likely to affirm their Christianity as opposed to Islam, and it is the Democrats (Obama, anyway) who timidly won't say "radical Islam". By refusing to acknowledge (the truth of) it as a religious issue, the Left is not using hatred of Islam as a rallying cry against religion.
                              Adrift makes good sense. But people don't, so you can't reason out some things.
                              In regards to the OP, my point was more that Christianity will always be hated regardless of what others do in the name of Islam because Christianity is the true faith. This, at least to me, explains why Christianity is still the focus of attack by militant atheists worldwide in spite of the fact Christianity has been the least violent religion for hundreds of years. I honestly have no idea why the left is empathetic towards Islam, though it could be a purely spiritual matter. Since Islam is false, it's only natural those outside the Christan faith would be the most receptive towards it in spite of how much of an extremely nasty rep it's getting in the west.

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