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Misrep at A Voice for Men

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  • #31
    I am running out, and unfortunately I can no longer link to the thread, but I was the first person to bring up the manbooz site. I read it daily. I just don't dismiss everything that the MRM has to say. I have been one of the loudest here to condemn the rampant misogyny, again, can't link to anything.

    The only point I would really wish to argue, is the one on the abortion issue, as I think you are horridly wrong. The rest was to give sea's some other examples, not particularly ones I am passionate about. One quick note:

    Abortion is a matter of bodily autonomy.

    LOL, yeah, one shouldn't destroy the body of the unborn.

    I don't care if someone comes and advocates MRM, feminism, whatever. I care more about the freedom to express unpopular ideas than ever before. (meaning unpopular to anyone, me included) You can quote stuff from the MRA reedit if you want, you just may have to put in [removed slur] multiple times.

    One this point, you are revealing your own innate prejudices:

    For pretty much every "bad thing" that society does to men, you can see a complimentary issue that's used to reduce the capacity for women to have and wield power:

    Men (single fathers in particular) aren't good at raising children --> It's a woman's place to be nuturing and raise children.
    What a way to denigrate the power of raising children and the power that wields. Most of the MRMs "want" the choice to have that "power." Being favored in child-rearing is oppressive to women?
    Last edited by Darth Xena; 02-22-2014, 11:37 AM.
    The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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    • #32
      Not nearly as much applause as your post deserves, but as much as I can include in one response


      I need to fix that.

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      • #33
        You need to answer my FB IM, slacker.
        The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
          I just don't dismiss everything that the MRM has to say.
          The MRM has some valid points. I don't think anyone will argue against that statement. But if the people who are arguing those valid points are also arguing the misogynistic ones, or are fellow travellers with the misogynists, then they have chosen the frame by which their message will be judged.

          It is possible to stand up for the valid arguments for men's rights without being a misogynist. As a whole, the MRM do not understand, or do not accept, that possibility.

          Separate the valid arguments from the flood of hatred, and you have the basis for a discussion.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Outis View Post


            Not nearly as much applause as your post deserves, but as much as I can include in one response.
            I don't entirely disagree. I am just not willing to write off all of the ideas due to the fact that the I don't like the authors. There are some good points.

            I find anyone who won't admit that, well that is telling because there are very few groups that have no good points. When I see refusal to concede that, I see irrationality.

            i.e. for example my thread on no-fault divorce in which I am conceding the point that homosexual activists are right in their pointing out of hypocrisy in the church on the denigration of marriage. I can concede they are right on selected points while still opposing the movement.
            The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Outis View Post
              The MRM has some valid points. I don't think anyone will argue against that statement. But if the people who are arguing those valid points are also arguing the misogynistic ones, or are fellow travellers with the misogynists, then they have chosen the frame by which their message will be judged.

              It is possible to stand up for the valid arguments for men's rights without being a misogynist. As a whole, the MRM do not understand, or do not accept, that possibility.

              Separate the valid arguments from the flood of hatred, and you have the basis for a discussion.
              Our posts crossed. Good on you. We agree. I do not care what they understand or accept, I care about the ideas that might have merit. I am so tired of the genetic fallacy.

              I see too much though blanket dismissal of all of the ideas. It is possible to separate the ideas from the misogyny. It just takes not being a co-reactionary.
              The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
                Our posts crossed.
                Dueling posts.

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                • #38
                  I win though of course. I am woman, hear me roar.:)
                  The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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                  • #39
                    Back to the OP, I am dying to see Epo admit that a link was misused.
                    The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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                    • #40
                      The MRM has some valid points. I don't think anyone will argue against that statement.


                      I will, happily. Any single grain of truth buried in there (and as I vaguely noted, there are things in society that negatively impact men - but only in the context of a general system which systematically disadvantages women) - is going to be something that feminists have been saying for years. There is no issue that a MRA could say they were upset about that isn't explainable by the model I outlined in my post.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Chrs View Post
                        snip, snip.

                        WRT: The picture - Two things. Firstly, one of these is actually doing harm to a real child. Secondly, stigma around parents not being there is an interesting one - you'll find "deadbeat mothers" are viewed a lot worse, but it happens a lot less. Probably because of the perception of mother-as-nuturer.

                        Snip snip.
                        Yeah, because an unborn child is not a "real" child.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Chrs View Post
                          [/I]I will, happily. Any single grain of truth buried in there (and as I vaguely noted, there are things in society that negatively impact men - but only in the context of a general system which systematically disadvantages women) - is going to be something that feminists have been saying for years. There is no issue that a MRA could say they were upset about that isn't explainable by the model I outlined in my post.
                          Chrs, I have slightly more respect for the typical NOW feminists than I do for the MRM, but not much, and for much the same reasons.

                          I have an incredible amount of respect for "real world" feminists. I'd better, because I am one. A real world feminist is not interested in women being better than men. They are interested in both men and women being free of the strictures and limitations that a male-prioritized culture has imposed. This is my goal as well.

                          I hope, but do not realistically expect in my lifetime, to see an article on a female CEO in a Fortune 500 company that does not concentrate on her gender, because gender in business is not an issue. I want to see the day when laws against gender discrimination (and race, and religion, and disability, and nationality, and ethnic origin, and--as unpopular as this is going to be on a Christian forum--sexual orientation and gender identity) are seen as quaint and outdated, because "nobody discriminates on those aspects anymore."

                          I want all people to be seen as _people_, and as worthwhile and valuable, regardless of traits like these. I want people to be appreciated as individuals, celebrated as people, and regarded as equals.

                          I want bigotry, in ANY form, to be as it is: a form of evil so disgusting as to be reviled, mocked, and condemned.

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                          • #43
                            Yeah, because an unborn child is not a "real" child.
                            A being which under no reasonable definition has the capacity to experience or process things... Yeah, pretty much.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Chrs View Post
                              A being which under no reasonable definition has the capacity to experience or process things... Yeah, pretty much.
                              Defining valuable human life based on ability. I think that's been done before. Didn't turn out so well.
                              The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Outis View Post
                                I want people to be appreciated as individuals, celebrated as people, and regarded as equals.
                                What does celebrated as people mean? And you are excepting those that disagree with your statement… that is be reviled, mocked, and condemned right?
                                The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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