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This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


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However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

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Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

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Why are some people so dogmatic about ttheir eschatological views?

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  • Why are some people so dogmatic about ttheir eschatological views?

    I've seen some premillenial dispensation futurists be very dogmatic about their position. Hopefully not to the point of claiming you can't be a Christian unless you agree with them, but they do seem to think you have to agree with them to be a good Christian. I'm pretty agnostic about what will happen before the Second coming of Jesus. If most of the prophecies were fulfilled in the first century(aside from the Second Coming and Final Resurrection, duh), that would be okay. If the planet goes down the tubes before Jesus returns, so be it. I'd like to know why some people think Jesus will return in our lifetimes. Haven't people been saying that for nearly two millennia?
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  • #2
    Originally posted by cbw
    Haven't people been saying that for nearly two millennia?
    Yes. Mockers have always existed, too, so be careful....... 2 Peter 3:



    3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,

    4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”

    5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
    6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

    7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

    8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

    9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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    • #3
      Meaning?

      Does the fact that people keep setting dates give more ammo for mockers?
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

      Comment


      • #4
        The belief in the imminent return of Christ is the basis for the belief that Christ can return in one's life time. It is also part of the basis of the peterist view point that the events of Matthew 24 must be understood to have already taken place in Jesus' disciples life time.

        Personally I believe Christ's return will be sudden and unexpected upon the lost world, rather than imminent. Meaning that it will have been imminent when it takes place. Holding a premillenial post tribulationists futurists view point.
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
          Meaning?

          Does the fact that people keep setting dates give more ammo for mockers?
          Yes.


          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Meaning?

            Does the fact that people keep setting dates give more ammo for mockers?
            Yeah it does, and those people keep claiming to know something Jesus said it would be impossible to know.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              The belief in the imminent return of Christ is the basis for the belief that Christ can return in one's life time. It is also part of the basis of the PRETERIST view point that the events of Matthew 24 must be understood to have already taken place in Jesus' disciples life time.

              Personally I believe Christ's return will be sudden and unexpected upon the lost world, rather than imminent. Meaning that it will have been imminent when it takes place. Holding a premillenial post tribulationists futurists view point.
              Might as well shout it out when I do agree with 37818. I don't like Dispensationalism nor the Rapture. I can't find either in the Bible. Both are sectarian innovations not over two centuries old.
              Near the Peoples' Republic of Davis, south of the State of Jefferson (Suspended between Left and Right)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                Yeah it does, and those people keep claiming to know something Jesus said it would be impossible to know.
                Maybe they think that if they keep guessing, they may accidentally get it correct one day?
                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                • #9
                  Well, they certainly are showing their lack of scriptural knowledge, which makes it clear that no one knows the day or hour of the Lord's return.

                  They also don't know scripture says that every eye will see Him return, so it is a physical return, not a "spiritual" one.


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                    Well, they certainly are showing their lack of scriptural knowledge, which makes it clear that no one knows the day or hour of the Lord's return.

                    They also don't know scripture says that every eye will see Him return, so it is a physical return, not a "spiritual" one.
                    Is that in reference to the various cults that think Jesus made a "spiritual" return? I hope no one mistakes the Second Coming for something else!
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                      Is that in reference to the various cults that think Jesus made a "spiritual" return? I hope no one mistakes the Second Coming for something else!
                      Yup.


                      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                      • #12
                        And some ideas sound like people have watched too many action films.
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                          I've seen some premillenial dispensation futurists be very dogmatic about their position. Hopefully not to the point of claiming you can't be a Christian unless you agree with them, but they do seem to think you have to agree with them to be a good Christian. I'm pretty agnostic about what will happen before the Second coming of Jesus. If most of the prophecies were fulfilled in the first century(aside from the Second Coming and Final Resurrection, duh), that would be okay. If the planet goes down the tubes before Jesus returns, so be it. I'd like to know why some people think Jesus will return in our lifetimes. Haven't people been saying that for nearly two millennia?
                          The church where I grew up required members to be dispensational premill pre-trib. What concerns me most about the position is that it contends that believers will miss all the bad stuff that happens at the end; if persecution comes before they depart, will they persevere?
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                          • #14
                            I'm a pan-millennialist (it'll all pan out in the end). Some people criticize this as a lazy approach but I just don't think God is as interested in giving us the specific details as people would like.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                            • #15
                              No spoilers! It might cause a time paradox.
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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