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Thread: Why are some people so dogmatic about ttheir eschatological views?

  1. #21
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I am pretty much the same way CBW. I don't really care if Jesus comes back tomorrow or in a thousand years. I just know that we all will meet Jesus in our own lifetimes (or to be precise, at the end of our lifetimes) so even if Jesus doesn't come back to earth for another thousands years, I will be meeting him in a few decades. And so will everyone else alive right now.
    Of course I hope to meet Him at least 6 decades from now when sleeping. Hypoxia does not sound fun.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  2. #22
    tWebber thewriteranon's Avatar
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    I hope to get another ten decades or so.

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  3. #23
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewriteranon View Post
    I hope to get another ten decades or so.
    I dunno. Everyone with extensive life experience tells me that getting old is no fun.
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  4. Amen John Reece amen'd this post.
  5. #24
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I dunno. Everyone with extensive life experience tells me that getting old is no fun.
    It is temporary. More years, more time to gain experience and do good.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  6. Amen 37818 amen'd this post.
  7. #25
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Well, they certainly are showing their lack of scriptural knowledge, which makes it clear that no one knows the day or hour of the Lord's return.

    They also don't know scripture says that every eye will see Him return, so it is a physical return, not a "spiritual" one.
    Ah, but that "proves" He will come back in an age of universally accessible broadcasting, TV, & the WWW. Which is now or later, because it was not possible before. Which, with verses like Dan.12.4 - "But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end, when many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase" added to the mixture, "proves" that TV, the WWW, radio, newsprint & other such media will record the Second Coming. Put together these technologies, that verse, and belief that the Second Coming is imminent - as in "totally possible by just after midnight tonight" - and such predictions are not likely to be discouraged. Any number of political events were treated by the Victorians as signs of the Second Coming - the rise of Napoleon III, the Crimean War, the definition of the Immaculate Conception, the 1855 Concordat with Austria, the Indian Mutiny, the Risorgimento, the loss of the Papal States,the definition of Papal Infallibility, to name a few.

    Some people do exactly the same nowadays. They look at some notable news item or social trend or prominent person, root around in Genesis, Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, St Matthew, St Luke and Acts, work out that the bad weather or the price of oil or the letters in the name of the current POTUS or some mangled translation of what the Pope said is a sign of the end, apply some arcane arithmetical calculation, dig up some obscure calendric system, and hey presto, they arrive at a date in the not too distant future. The date comes, nothing happens, and Christians as a body are left looking like credulous idiots. A little time goes by, and some other, equally confident joker pops up. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

    Those who concoct these schemes and dates always "know", sometimes to the day, when the Lord will come or the Resurection will occur, because they always have some bright explanation for getting around what Our Lord said. Critics of their bright ideas can always be conceptualised as the "mockers" in 2 Peter 3, and disregarded accordingly, leaving the authors of these schemes to sell the books they write proving that this scheme is correct, even though so many others have been falsified by events.

  8. #26
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ
    Ah, but that "proves" He will come back in an age of universally accessible broadcasting, TV, & the WWW. Which is now or later, because it was not possible before. Which, with verses like Dan.12.4 - "But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end, when many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase" added to the mixture, "proves" that TV, the WWW, radio, newsprint & other such media will record the Second Coming.
    I can't argue with that.
    Put together these technologies, that verse, and belief that the Second Coming is imminent - as in "totally possible by just after midnight tonight" - and such predictions are not likely to be discouraged. Any number of political events were treated by the Victorians as signs of the Second Coming - the rise of Napoleon III, the Crimean War, the definition of the Immaculate Conception, the 1855 Concordat with Austria, the Indian Mutiny, the Risorgimento, the loss of the Papal States,the definition of Papal Infallibility, to name a few.

    Some people do exactly the same nowadays. They look at some notable news item or social trend or prominent person, root around in Genesis, Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, St Matthew, St Luke and Acts, work out that the bad weather or the price of oil or the letters in the name of the current POTUS or some mangled translation of what the Pope said is a sign of the end, apply some arcane arithmetical calculation, dig up some obscure calendric system, and hey presto, they arrive at a date in the not too distant future. The date comes, nothing happens, and Christians as a body are left looking like credulous idiots. A little time goes by, and some other, equally confident joker pops up. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

    Those who concoct these schemes and dates always "know", sometimes to the day, when the Lord will come or the Resurection will occur, because they always have some bright explanation for getting around what Our Lord said. Critics of their bright ideas can always be conceptualised as the "mockers" in 2 Peter 3, and disregarded accordingly, leaving the authors of these schemes to sell the books they write proving that this scheme is correct, even though so many others have been falsified by events.
    I can't argue with any of that, either.



    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  9. #27
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    Yeah it does, and those people keep claiming to know something Jesus said it would be impossible to know.
    A point I made to a friend back in the 80s. He kept telling me to read a certain book in which the author had calculated exactly when the Second Coming was going to take place (within the coming year). He was quite enthusiastic about it. I calmly asked him did he actually think that this guy really knew something that Jesus informed us that no man would know and then pointed out he was selling a book meaning the money he was making would very soon be useless if he was correct. He was thunderstruck and after a few seconds very quietly said "probably not."

    I'm always still in trouble again

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    I've seen some premillenial dispensation futurists be very dogmatic about their position. Hopefully not to the point of claiming you can't be a Christian unless you agree with them, but they do seem to think you have to agree with them to be a good Christian. I'm pretty agnostic about what will happen before the Second coming of Jesus. If most of the prophecies were fulfilled in the first century(aside from the Second Coming and Final Resurrection, duh), that would be okay. If the planet goes down the tubes before Jesus returns, so be it. I'd like to know why some people think Jesus will return in our lifetimes. Haven't people been saying that for nearly two millennia?
    Paul wrote, "That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another." Jesus also said, "But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep."Also he said, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Many pastors today do not mind the schism among Christian, but schism is the work of the Devil. John said, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. It is for this reason that the divisions of Christians pose the problem that either one, or none, of these churches are of God.

    I submit that it is really hard to ascertain which among the churches is of God. But the prophecies, as supposed, would validate the true church and it's doctrines.

    Rev 19:10
    And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

  11. #29
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    A great deal, Parakletos, of what you are calling schism is nothing of the sort. If I am a futurist and you a preterist what matter is that if we both love the same Lord Jesus? Differing interpretations that do not call into question the fundamentals of the faith are not schism, just proof that we are not omnicient.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    A great deal, Parakletos, of what you are calling schism is nothing of the sort. If I am a futurist and you a preterist what matter is that if we both love the same Lord Jesus? Differing interpretations that do not call into question the fundamentals of the faith are not schism, just proof that we are not omnicient.
    Jews are still waiting for the Messiah, and this hinders a lot of things for us to be united in the Messiah. What we think sometimes as negligible are actually the very root of division.

    Now, there are a lot of these Jews still waiting for the Messiah who are better than many esteemed Christians, but we(Jews and Christians) are divided in many ways, would you really think that the kingdom of God is acceptable in such a state of division and confusion? Ultimately we have to be in "one mind", as Paul wants us to attain. One must make a good study how small matter of division brought wars, loss of lives, and loss of morale and trusts amongst us, looking at the division in views does not necessarily mean it is not destructive. There are consequences of holding different beliefs. Even ignorance itself is destructive. If we let those ignorant have their say and ways, we will be in chaos, how much more of having different/contradictory beliefs?


    Now, on the issue of omniscient, knowing the destructive nature of not having "one mind", it is not an excuse that we continue and should go on and let ourselves be as it is and let ourselves end up to destruction. The very nature of such lack of omniscience will lead us to death; as Jesus said that if the blind leads the blind they will both fall on the ditch. Never does God lead us to walk as blind, anyone who are led to speak of any eschatological point of view must have an anointing from God. And anyone who speak of false/erroneous prophecies will be judged speaking of the word of God "presumptuously," peaking only of his own. So our positions as futurist, or preterist, or anything else, is no small matter.

    Now, majority of christians possess ignorance, and there is no way that these people, because of ignorance, can learn from preaching, or of teaching doctrines, but they will be saved by believing the prophesies and of the prophets and leaders that is being witnessed in those prophesies.

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