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Thread: The Baha'i Faith - Satan and the ego

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    The Baha'i Faith - Satan and the ego

    There have been posts with selective references concerning the view of Satan and Satanic in reference to Judaism without understanding the whole view of what Satan means in the Baha'i writings. I will also refer to references from other religions and their scriptures how this relates to the Baha'i view.

    Selective references with the purposes of criticizing the Baha'i Faith without understanding the context in the whole writings of the Baha'i is a very biased way to approach a religion that believes differently. For a better understanding all anyone needed to do was google 'Baha'i Satan' and this reference would be one of the results.

    Source: http://www.religionfacts.com/evil/bahai



    The Bahá'í Faith rejects the concept of "original sin" or any doctrine that teaches people are basically evil or have intrinsically evil elements in their nature. All the forces and faculties within us are God-given and thus potentially beneficial to our spiritual development.

    However, if a person, through his own God-given free will, turns away from this force or fails to make the necessary effort to develop his spiritual capacities, the result is imperfection. `Abdu'l-Bahá said that "evil is imperfection."

    The Bahá'í Faith denies the existence of Satan, a devil, or an "evil force." Evil does not have independent existence, but is rather the absence of good, just as darkness is the absence of light and cold is the absence of heat. Just as the sun is the unique source of all life in a solar system, so ultimately is there only one force or power in the universe, the force we call God.

    Bahá'u'lláh explained that references to Satan in the Scriptures of earlier religions are symbolic and should not be taken literally. Satan is the personification of man's lower nature which can destroy him if it is not brought into harmony with his spiritual nature. There is, in fact, a well-known philosophical problem concerning God's goodness and omnipotence and the possible existence of a Satan. This problem is discussed in some detail in both the writings of Bahá'u'lláh and `Abdu'l-Bahá.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Any references to Satan or Satanic in the Baha'i writings should be understood in the light of this understanding which applies to the nature of all humanity, and not selectively to reference to one person, culture nor religion.

    In this view all humanity is subject to temptation and seductive nature of the 'ego.'
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-07-2015 at 04:08 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    So Jesus was tempted in the wilderness three times by His ego's seductive nature?

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    So Jesus was tempted in the wilderness three times by His ego's seductive nature?
    In the Baha'i view, yes.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber arnoldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    There have been posts with selective references concerning the view of Satan and Satanic in reference to Judaism without understanding the whole view of what Satan means in the Baha'i writings. I will also refer to references from other religions and their scriptures how this relates to the Baha'i view.

    Selective references with the purposes of criticizing the Baha'i Faith without understanding the context in the whole writings of the Baha'i is a very biased way to approach a religion that believes differently. For a better understanding all anyone needed to do was google 'Baha'i Satan' and this reference would be one of the results.

    [cite=http://www.religionfacts.com/evil/bahai]

    The Bahá'í Faith rejects the concept of "original sin" or any doctrine that teaches people are basically evil or have intrinsically evil elements in their nature.
    Then there was no reason for Jesus to die on the cross and shed his blood for our sins if this is true.

  5. Amen Faber amen'd this post.
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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnoldo View Post
    Then there was no reason for Jesus to die on the cross and shed his blood for our sins if this is true.
    The purpose of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is not dependent on ancient Genesis myths. A mythical Satan is not necessary for the purpose of Creation and Revelation from God. Humans have always been fallible naturally created humans since the first primate and the first 'Adam' became human hundreds of thousands if not more then a million years ago.

    It is true that based on the events described in Genesis, traditional Christianity believes in the necessity of the literal 'Original Sin,' 'Fall,' and personification of evil as Satan as underlying the purpose of Jesus Christ's mission in the world, but this an ancient human view of the relationship between humanity based on Old Testament concepts of the 'sacrifice,'
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-08-2015 at 12:34 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    In Buddhism what the Baha'i Faith describes as the Ego (Satan) is 'Maara' which is the personification of temptation, lust, desires, destruction and death that tempted Buddha in his encounters in the forest.

    Source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/guruge/wheel419.html



    The same comment would also apply to the Bhayabherava Sutta (No. 4 of the Majjhima Nikaaya), where the Buddha recounts the doubts and fears which he encountered in the days of his austerities in the forest. Nor does the Dvedhaavitakka Sutta (No. 19) of the same Nikaaya, which analyzes the Buddha's thought process prior to the Enlightenment and how it led to his Enlightenment, digress from the philosophical treatment of the theme to refer to temptations by Maara. Thomas's explanation is "that later authorities put additional events in different places."[11] But a more reasonable explanation, to my mind, is that poetical imagery or allegorization is more the domain of poetry and hence not to be expected in prose sermons. That is precisely why almost all the accounts of Maara's temptations in the Paali Canon are in verse, fully or partially, and the conversations with Maara invariably are recorded in verse.

    The most important among them is the Padhaana Sutta in the Sutta-nipaata (vv. 425 ff.) of the Khuddaka Nikaaya. Here, Maara is presented as Namuci and described as a person who approached the striving Bodhisatta speaking kind words (karu.na.m vaaca.m bhaasamaano). The words attributed to him are as follows:

    "O you are thin and you are pale,
    And you are in death's presence too;
    A thousand parts are pledged to death,
    But life still holds one part of you.
    Live, Sir! Life is the better way;
    You can gain merit if you live,
    Come, live the Holy Life and pour
    Libations on the holy fires,
    And thus a world of merit gain.
    What can you do by struggling now?
    The path of struggling too is rough
    And difficult and hard to bear."[12]


    The reply which the Buddha gave Maara has the makings of the entire concept of the allegorization or personification of temptation and psychological conflict. We find here all the ingredients which, in course of time, fired the imagination of countless writers, poets, painters, and sculptors all over Asia for over two millennia.[13]

    The Buddha recognizes the speaker of these "kind" words and is conscious of Maara's hidden agenda. So he rebukes him as Pamattabandhu (the Friend of Heedlessness), Paapimaa (the Evil One), and Ka.nha (the Black One). The hosts of Maara are also identified:

    "Your first squadron is Sense-Desires,
    Your second is called Boredom, then
    Hunger and Thirst compose the third,
    And Craving is the fourth in rank,
    The fifth is Sloth and Torpor
    While Cowardice lines up as sixth,
    Uncertainty is seventh, the eighth
    Is Malice paired with Obstinacy;
    Gain, Honor and Renown, besides,
    And ill-won Notoriety,
    Self-praise and Denigrating Others:
    These are your squadrons, Namuci."[14]

    © Copyright Original Source





    Like in Christianity, contemporary Buddhist often portrays Maara as literal demonic figures.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber arnoldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    The purpose of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is not dependent on ancient Genesis myths. A mythical Satan is not necessary for the purpose of Creation and Revelation from God. Humans have always been fallible naturally created humans since the first primate and the first 'Adam' became human hundreds of thousands if not more then a million years ago.

    It is true that based on the events described in Genesis, traditional Christianity believes in the necessity of the literal 'Original Sin,' 'Fall,' and personification of evil as Satan as underlying the purpose of Jesus Christ's mission in the world, but this an ancient human view of the relationship between humanity based on Old Testament concepts of the 'sacrifice,'
    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

  9. Amen Faber, Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Theological differences aside, the Baha'i Faith teaches that Jesus Christ is a Messiah, bring a Revelation from God to humanity.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber arnoldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Theological differences aside, the Baha'i Faith teaches that Jesus Christ is a Messiah, bring a Revelation from God to humanity.
    Is Bahá'u'lláh a Messiah, bring a Revelation from God to humanity?

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    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnoldo View Post
    Is Bahá'u'lláh a Messiah, bring a Revelation from God to humanity?
    He claimed to be the messiah of several religions. But not to be concerned. The guy's stone cold dead.
    Bahaullah.jpg

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