What is the Jewish view of the resurrection of Jesus?

[mitzi]

So, where is the credible part of Paul's speech there, what part of the Torah that Paul quotes did he clarify?

I have found that any truths the NT has have already been covered by TN"K, and are therefore redundant, but so muddied by the myriad incorrect assertions and ideas that surround them as to render the truths worthless.

I think Paul obfuscates them, although probably unintentionally.

My hope is that they will abandon that quest as an impossible feat, and start searching for whether or not there is any truth to the church's claims about J.

It depends on who you think the early church was. Was it the Ebionites or the Gnostics? The proto-orthodox group? If the former, those teachings are mostly lost forever. If the latter, then look no further than your Codex Sinaiticus or Codex Vaticanus.

Yes, the NT has some historical facts correct: there was a land called Judah, occupied during by the Romans during the times in which it claims J lived, and wealthy people had their tombs cut into rock. None of these prove the historicity of J or his disciples, nor do they prove the truth of Christianity's claims about him.

From Salty: So, where is the credible part of Paul's speech there, what part of the Torah that Paul quotes did he clarify?

From Mitzi: "12. In order that they inherit the remnant of Edom and all the nations because My Name is called upon them, says the Lord Who does this."

Yes, who did Paul quote from? But the part stress in the last passage was....."17 so that the rest of humanity may seek out the Lord, even all the Gentiles on whom my name is invoked. Thus says the Lord who accomplishes these things, 18 known from of old.
It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God"

see also Act 13: 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, 'I have made you a light to the Gentiles, that you may be an instrument of salvation to the ends of the earth.'"
48 The Gentiles were delighted when they heard this and glorified the word of the Lord. All who were destined for eternal life came to believe, 49 and the word of the Lord continued to spread through the whole region.

Salty, I'm not pressing you about the change over to the Noahide movement (I hope that 'not' the direction we're heading with all of this)... all I'm stating is the fact that one must realize or become aware within themselves (as one who is searching out) which religious teaching is the way for them. For Judaism (and for many) is a great spiritual guide to a better life & relationship with G-d however the change over is very difficult as it would be for someone who chooses the Noahide movement.

Also in "any" religion that one tries to follow: there is a part of that belief which has a spiritual sense called "trust" (Bitachon). There's a saying from old: Faith for all defects supplying, Where the feeble senses fail." (Tantum ergo are the opening words of the Vespers for Corpus Christi) When we can't comprehend (or understand) "everything" then trust in G-d. Are human senses (logically speaking) fails us (which it "will" ) then trust in G-d, even when we have to let go of ourselves. In your 'newer' faith at some point "logic" has to turn into trust & faith (From Isaiah; For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence (shall be your strength)

There was an example in the commentary down below:

"Emunah helps us deal with the past. To come to terms with the difficulties and failures, hardships and the blows, that life showers on us. It is the faith in knowing it was all for the best. That for some reason beyond our comprehension it had to be this way.

But Bitachon assists us with the present and the future.It is my uncalculated trust, the warmth all around me, right now, at this moment, because You are with me.It is the confidence that You will provide only good things for me in the future because You are the ultimate source of good."

To quote:


"In speaking of our relationship with You, we sometimes speak of our Biatchon, "trust." Other times we speak of our Emunah, our "faith." Bitachon is the warm embrace that we feel, the assurance that we find in the depths of our heart and soul, that You are watching, caring and holding us." Link

Now (back to Acts)......Acts 15: 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.10 Why, then, are you now putting God to the test by placing on the shoulders of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?

[mitzi]

So, where is the credible part of Paul's speech there, what part of the Torah that Paul quotes did he clarify?

I have found that any truths the NT has have already been covered by TN"K, and are therefore redundant, but so muddied by the myriad incorrect assertions and ideas that surround them as to render the truths worthless.

I think Paul obfuscates them, although probably unintentionally.

My hope is that they will abandon that quest as an impossible feat, and start searching for whether or not there is any truth to the church's claims about J.

It depends on who you think the early church was. Was it the Ebionites or the Gnostics? The proto-orthodox group? If the former, those teachings are mostly lost forever. If the latter, then look no further than your Codex Sinaiticus or Codex Vaticanus.

Yes, the NT has some historical facts correct: there was a land called Judah, occupied during by the Romans during the times in which it claims J lived, and wealthy people had their tombs cut into rock. None of these prove the historicity of J or his disciples, nor do they prove the truth of Christianity's claims about him.

From Salty: Yes, the NT has some historical facts correct: there was a land called Judah, occupied during by the Romans during the times in which it claims J lived, and wealthy people had their tombs cut into rock. None of these prove the historicity of J or his disciples, nor do they prove the truth of Christianity's claims about him.

From Mitzi: Which statement are you supporting, to quote: "First, let me clarify: I am speaking of the J as described in the NT, and in Christian claims as to his nature, purpose and messiahship. I say this based on the fact the he didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy, so he wasn't messiah, the fact that he couldn't be G-d, unless G-d is a liar, and the fact that his death as described in the NT cannot possibly atone for the sins of the world, unless, again, G-d is a liar. All these claims contradict and run counter to everything the Hebrew bible says about G-d and the messiah".

From what I understood...You believe that Jesus existed? Right? But you don't believe in the accuracy of the N.T and about the his claim to the Messiahship of Yeshua (Jesus). And when you stated that all these claims contradict and run counter to everything the Hebrew bible say about G-d and the Messiah....You're claiming that the word “Messiah” (mashiach-Moshiach, "anointed [one]") was 'not' to be equal to G-d and that the term Mashiach (or Moshiach) was used to represent the future "King of Israel" (and the anointing of that position) even though there have been disagreements within some Jewish movement as to his nature and the prophecies that have said otherwise.....

[bridgeforsale]

So, where is the credible part of Paul's speech there, what part of the Torah that Paul quotes did he clarify?

I only see Paul addressing Exodus & Genesis in his epistle to the Romans (primarily Genesis chapter 28, but also other parts). He does this mostly in Romans 9, but also in chapter 4. Paul asserts that the "promise" extended to his people was conditioned on faith (see Romans chap. 4 where he discusses how Abraham was justified by faith). He seems to infer that Israelites misconstrued the promise made them by God (believing it was based on works rather than faith) in chapter 9 (thus God hardened their hearts to faith in Jesus Christ). Paul presents this as revealing a continuum from Genesis through the NT. He points to God's conversation with Jacob (the Jacobs' ladder story) as revealing Christ would flow from Jacob's seen (Isaac to Jacob to Judah to David through to Christ). Paul also posits that God revealed only a reminant of Israel would be saved (although Paul seems to state in Romans 11 that ultimately all Jews will be saved pursuant to the oath made by God to the patriarchs). In Romans 9 in particular Paul seems to be addressing questions regarding the status of Jews in God's elective framework; and he does seek to present an understanding of these Torah sections, which is contrary to the typical Judaic understaning. Paul presents this as part of God's plan. God, apparently predicting the unbelief of the Jews in Christ, uses them as a vehicle to spread His word to the world (until apparently a sufficient number of gentiles are "grafted in" at which point the Jews will be saved for the sake of the oath to their forefathers...perhaps this references what we view as the second coming).

AW

[mitzi]

From Mitzi:

Salty. Is Moshe in Gan Eden? Is Elijah in Gad Eden? If you say that both are.... then how can they return at the end of days? In the N.T...the elders & scribes were awaiting Elijah, wasn't that the question stated to John the Baptist? (per quote: Are you Elijah?) I believe there are those (who are) specifically designated to open the Messianic Era?

I'm listing this passage for a reason and I will make more of a argument tonight....Sorry if I rushing a thought/thoughts.



Mt 22:29-32: At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven. And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living...

And listed, Talmudic aggadot [Vol. 5:129], s.v. "keshehem omdim" explains the comparison of wheat to man's resurrection. Wheat has no ministering angel and is subject to the direct care of G-d. Similarly, G-d retains the "key" of the resurrection of men.)

Mitzi

.........need to revise this