Another Glaring Factual Discrepency in the Quran

[Dan Zebiri]

Hi Muslim friends here,

There is a very interesting story recorded about Moses life and times - regarding his encounter with the Egyptian pharoah of his time, at least 3 surahs/chapters give the details:

Surah 7/133 : So We sent (plagues) on them: Wholesale death, Locusts, Lice, Frogs, And Blood: Signs openly self-explained: but they were steeped in arrogance,- a people given to sin.



Surah 27/012 : "Now put thy hand into thy bosom, and it will come forth white without stain (or harm): (these are) among the nine Signs (thou wilt take) to Pharaoh and his people: for they are a people rebellious in transgression."



Surah 17/101 : To Moses We did give Nine Clear Signs: As the Children of Israel: when he came to them, Pharaoh said to him: "O Moses! I consider thee, indeed, to have been worked upon by sorcery!

So, the questions for Muslims here is : How many ‘signs’ or plagues did Allah actually give Moses?? According to the quranic passages above, one says 5, and the other two say 9…!?


Even if you add the one from surah 27/102 to 17/101, you get just 6 ‘signs’, so where are the other 3 signs, if there are to be “9 clear signs”? This is another example of more contradiction in the Quran.


And this is not only an internal contradiction in the Quran, it is also historically and factually incorrect and wrong according to the national history of the Jews and Israel during the time of prophet Moses.


During Moses’ time, according to the Jewish scriptures, as well as the Christian Bible, how many signs did God actually give to the Jews? Let us compare the Biblical & Tanakh record.


BUT If you study the appropriate text and the proper passages of the Old Testament, God does not give only 9 signs, but He actually gives 10 plagues or 10 signs to Moses to confront the Egyptian pharaoh/firaun with.


The full and complete episode is found in Exodus Chapters 7 to 12. Where you will find recorded the signs of :


1. Exodus 7: 12-25 - Water turning into blood, Plague No.1


2. Exodus 8:1-15 - the plague of Frogs, Plague No.2


3. Exod. 8: 16 – 19 - the plague of gnats, Plague No.3


4. Exod. 8:20 – 32 - the plague of flies, Plague No.4


5. Exod. 9 : 1-7 - Death of Egyptian livestock, Plague No.5


6. Exod. 9: 8 - 12 - the plague of boils, Plague No.6

7. Exod. 9: 13 – 34 - the plague of hail, Plague No.7

8. Exod. 10 : 1 – 20 - the plague of locusts, Plague No.8


9. Exod. 10 : 21 – 28 - the plague of darkness over the land of Egypt, Plague No.9

10. Exod.11 : 1 – 10 – God’s threat of a devastating final Plague – the TENTH plague upon pharaoh and Egypt; Exodus 12: 29-32!


The tenth plague realized change and forced Pharoah & Egypt to release the Israelites – THIS was the the death of EVERY first-born Male in Egypt who were not protected by the signs of the Blood of the sacrificial or PASSOVER Lamb!


In fact, it was the Tenth plague which finally and singularly broke pharoah’s back and forced him to release the Jews and Moses with his people, out of Egypt ultimately and led to the Exodus Event.


31 Then he – pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron by night and said, “Up, go out from among my people, both you and the people of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as you have said. 32 tTake your flocks and your herds, as you have said, and be gone..! – Exodus 12:31-32


How come the event and historical fact of the Jewish Passover, the actual release of the Jewish people and Moses due to the 10th Plague from God is expunged and deleted from the Quran??


This is another clear-cut proof of the historical error of the Quran and of its inaccurate record of the historical event of the Exodus of Israel out of Egypt.


If the Quran is really God’s word and contains the truth, it cannot have neglected such a crucial fact of Israel’s history-the Passover, which is also celebrated year after year by the Jews who acknowledge such events as part and parcel of their national history!

This is another evidence of ignorance on the part of the Quran, and/or deliberate deletion of a key historical event which every Jewish person is aware of!


And this is also clear revisionism on the part of Islam and the Quran of the national history of the entire nation of Israel. Any historical revisionism is something that is regularly found in the Quran; ie.the time compression found in the quranic stories of the "Samaritan" who lived in the same time as Moses which is a chronological impossibility! Is simply another glaring example of the Quran's errors.

Perhaps Barn, heisonly1 and moose may want to try explaining such discrepencies to us!

Wasallaam, Dan.

[moose7237]

Hello and Peace be to you friend,

If you notice Allah said he gave MOSES 9 signs. Allah mentioned 5 plagues. So 4 signs could have came from Moses that were not plagues at all. Also, if you look at verse 133, it doesn't say we ONLY sent them death, locusts, blood, frogs, flood. It doesn't need to mention all 9 signs. It seems like those 5 were the worst of plagues mentioned. If it said, ONLY these 5, then you have a contradiction.

[barnasha]

Hi Muslim friends here,

Surah 17/101 : To Moses We did give Nine Clear Signs: As the Children of Israel: when he came to them, Pharaoh said to him: "O Moses! I consider thee, indeed, to have been worked upon by sorcery!

So, the questions for Muslims here is : How many ‘signs’ or plagues did Allah actually give Moses?? According to the quranic passages above, one says 5, and the other two say 9…!?

I do not see a discrepancy.

How would you assert that 'signs' means 'plagues'?

Regardless of any perceived contradiction, the hebrew bible and the quran are not history books, so any seemingly 'factual' discrepancy must be followed up with a critical analysis of the text, rather than a scavenger hunt for apparent inconsistencies.

for every difference in the hebrew bible and quran you can find, there are dozens of similarities. the narrator of the quran points out that the Torah is sent by God.

what real discrepancy, therefore, is there?

[heisonly1]

Dan Zebiri - Hi Muslim friends here,

There is a very interesting story recorded about Moses life and times - regarding his encounter with the Egyptian pharoah of his time, at least 3 surahs/chapters give the details:

Surah 7/133 : So We sent (plagues) on them: Wholesale death, Locusts, Lice, Frogs, And Blood: Signs openly self-explained: but they were steeped in arrogance,- a people given to sin.



Surah 27/012 : "Now put thy hand into thy bosom, and it will come forth white without stain (or harm): (these are) among the nine Signs (thou wilt take) to Pharaoh and his people: for they are a people rebellious in transgression."



Surah 17/101 : To Moses We did give Nine Clear Signs: As the Children of Israel: when he came to them, Pharaoh said to him: "O Moses! I consider thee, indeed, to have been worked upon by sorcery!

So, the questions for Muslims here is : How many ‘signs’ or plagues did Allah actually give Moses?? According to the quranic passages above, one says 5, and the other two say 9…!?


Even if you add the one from surah 27/102 to 17/101, you get just 6 ‘signs’, so where are the other 3 signs, if there are to be “9 clear signs”? This is another example of more contradiction in the Quran.

hahahahah Dan continues to spread his embarrassing ignorance about the Quran with his dubious claims about supposed 'contraditions' in the Quran.

If you read Sura 7 carefully Dan, you would realize the deceptions you ignorantly promote are fallacious.

Here are the 9 signs for you Danny boy!!!

106. (Pharaoh) said: "If indeed thou hast come with a Sign, show it forth,- if thou tellest the truth."

107. Then (Moses) threw his rod, and behold! it was a serpent, plain (for all to see)! (ONE)

108. And he drew out his hand, and behold! it was white to all beholders! (TWO)

130. We punished the people of Pharaoh with famine (THREE) and shortness of crops (FOUR); that they might receive admonition.

133. So We sent (plagues) on them: Wholesale death (FIVE), Locusts (SIX), Lice (SEVEN), Frogs (EIGHT), And Blood (NINE): Signs openly self-explained: but they were steeped in arrogance,- a people given to sin.

And this is also clear revisionism on the part of Islam and the Quran of the national history of the entire nation of Israel. Any historical revisionism is something that is regularly found in the Quran; ie.the time compression found in the quranic stories of the "Samaritan" who lived in the same time as Moses which is a chronological impossibility! Is simply another glaring example of the Quran's errors.

We are still waiting for your COUNTER RESPONSE to our post regarding the supposed "Samaritan error" in the Quran!!!!

Perhaps Barn, heisonly1 and moose may want to try explaining such discrepencies to us!

we have refuted your lies about the supposed 'contradictions' regarding the signs of Moses, now it's your turn to show some credibility and counter respond !!!!

heisonly1,

[Dan Zebiri]

Read the Quranic passage again, barn,

Surah 7/133 : So We sent (plagues) on them: Wholesale death, Locusts, Lice, Frogs, And Blood: Signs openly self-explained: but they were steeped in arrogance,- a people given to sin.

- Even the quranic translator himself says that 'Plagues' = signs, above!

So its not an assertion, barn, but what the quranic text itself states..!

Yes, the discrepancy I want to point out is that the Quran's version of this episode between Moses and Pharoah itself, IS INCORRECT AND ERRONEOUS.

The Quran states 'nine signs' when in actual fact, there was MORE THAN THAT! There were in reality TEN Signs or Plagues, it was the tenth plague that finally and ULTIMATELY caused the release of the People of Israel.

The Quran record also deletes & expunges the event of the Passover, which is central to the historical context and the national History of the Israelites. The Jews and Israel have been celebrating the Passover event, ever since the time it occurred, in Moses' time, right through Jesus Christ's own era and time, until today.

Regards, Dan.

I do not see a discrepancy.

How would you assert that 'signs' means 'plagues'?

Regardless of any perceived contradiction, the hebrew bible and the quran are not history books, so any seemingly 'factual' discrepancy must be followed up with a critical analysis of the text, rather than a scavenger hunt for apparent inconsistencies.

for every difference in the hebrew bible and quran you can find, there are dozens of similarities. the narrator of the quran points out that the Torah is sent by God.

what real discrepancy, therefore, is there?

[Dan Zebiri]

Heisonly1 aka badger,

Yes, the Quran is in clear contradiction with the actual historical facts, badger..!!

Read the full and complete episode is found in Exodus Chapters 7 to 12!! Not just the erroneous records found in your defective Quran.

In reality, the actual event entailed a final plague upon Pharoah and the Egyptians - the death of the first-born male child - both human and animal. They were ONLY delivered and saved by the sacrificing of the Passover lamb, whose blood was to be very specifically handled and treated
by the people of God! ONLY THEN would they be delivered from the bondage of Pharoah.

The Quran record also deletes & expunges the event of the Passover, which is central to the historical context and the national History of the Israelites. The Jews and Israel have been celebrating the Passover event, ever since the time it occurred, in Moses' time, right through Jesus Christ's own era and time, until today.

That miracle and sign is missing and deleted from the Quran. THAT is its major discrepancy , badger!

[heisonly1]

Heisonly1 aka badger,

Yes, the Quran is in clear contradiction with the actual historical facts, badger..!!

Read the full and complete episode is found in Exodus Chapters 7 to 12!! Not just the erroneous records found in your defective Quran.

In reality, the actual event entailed a final plague upon Pharoah and the Egyptians - the death of the first-born male child - both human and animal. They were ONLY delivered and saved by the sacrificing of the Passover lamb, whose blood was to be very specifically handled and treated
by the people of God! ONLY THEN would they be delivered from the bondage of Pharoah.

The Quran record also deletes & expunges the event of the Passover, which is central to the historical context and the national History of the Israelites. The Jews and Israel have been celebrating the Passover event, ever since the time it occurred, in Moses' time, right through Jesus Christ's own era and time, until today.

That miracle and sign is missing and deleted from the Quran. THAT is its major discrepancy , badger!

Now just hang on one moment Danny boy. Not so fast !!!!

FIRSTLY, you fallaciously alledge that the Quran contained an internal contradiction. This the first false accusation you made.

You erroneosuly said :

There is a very interesting story recorded about Moses life and times - regarding his encounter with the Egyptian pharoah of his time, at least 3 surahs/chapters give the details:

Surah 7/133 : So We sent (plagues) on them: Wholesale death, Locusts, Lice, Frogs, And Blood: Signs openly self-explained: but they were steeped in arrogance,- a people given to sin.



Surah 27/012 : "Now put thy hand into thy bosom, and it will come forth white without stain (or harm): (these are) among the nine Signs (thou wilt take) to Pharaoh and his people: for they are a people rebellious in transgression."


Surah 17/101 : To Moses We did give Nine Clear Signs: As the Children of Israel: when he came to them, Pharaoh said to him: "O Moses! I consider thee, indeed, to have been worked upon by sorcery!

So, the questions for Muslims here is : How many ‘signs’ or plagues did Allah actually give Moses?? According to the quranic passages above, one says 5, and the other two say 9…!?


Even if you add the one from surah 27/102 to 17/101, you get just 6 ‘signs’, so where are the other 3 signs, if there are to be “9 clear signs”? This is another example of more contradiction in the Quran.

I clearly exposed your ignorance and deceptions and totally dismantled your dubious claim and lies and illustrated there is no INTERNAL CONTRADICTION.

See devasting refutation below:

hahahahah Dan continues to spread his embarrassing ignorance about the Quran with his dubious claims about supposed 'contraditions' in the Quran.

If you read Sura 7 carefully Dan, you would realize the deceptions you ignorantly promote are fallacious.

Here are the 9 signs for you Danny boy!!!

106. (Pharaoh) said: "If indeed thou hast come with a Sign, show it forth,- if thou tellest the truth."

107. Then (Moses) threw his rod, and behold! it was a serpent, plain (for all to see)! (ONE)

108. And he drew out his hand, and behold! it was white to all beholders! (TWO)

130. We punished the people of Pharaoh with famine (THREE) and shortness of crops (FOUR); that they might receive admonition.

133. So We sent (plagues) on them: Wholesale death (FIVE), Locusts (SIX), Lice (SEVEN), Frogs (EIGHT), And Blood (NINE): Signs openly self-explained: but they were steeped in arrogance,- a people given to sin.

• Edited by a Moderator •

So Dan, are you man enough to admit you were totally wrong in your first erroneous allegation?????

When you have responded to this request, I'll set you up for a another great fall and respond to your second dubious logic and allegation against the Quran's supposed contradiction, where you claim there were 10 plagues, according to the biblical record, not nine as the Quran proclaims, hence the Quran must be wrong because the bible lists ten, not nine. heheheheh

We are looking forward to your response danny boy

Oh and by the way Dan, where is your counter response to the "Samaritan error" in the Quran??

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[barnasha]

the claim that something was 'deleted' from the quran tacitly raises the argument that it used to exist there, something for which you have provided no argument

[shunyadragon]

Hi Muslim friends here,

There is a very interesting story recorded about Moses life and times - regarding his encounter with the Egyptian pharoah of his time, at least 3 surahs/chapters give the details:


In fact, it was the Tenth plague which finally and singularly broke pharoah’s back and forced him to release the Jews and Moses with his people, out of Egypt ultimately and led to the Exodus Event.

This is another clear-cut proof of the historical error of the Quran and of its inaccurate record of the historical event of the Exodus of Israel out of Egypt.


If the Quran is really God’s word and contains the truth, it cannot have neglected such a crucial fact of Israel’s history-the Passover, which is also celebrated year after year by the Jews who acknowledge such events as part and parcel of their national history!

This is another evidence of ignorance on the part of the Quran, and/or deliberate deletion of a key historical event which every Jewish person is aware of!


And this is also clear revisionism on the part of Islam and the Quran of the national history of the entire nation of Israel. Any historical revisionism is something that is regularly found in the Quran; ie.the time compression found in the quranic stories of the "Samaritan" who lived in the same time as Moses which is a chronological impossibility! Is simply another glaring example of the Quran's errors.

Perhaps Barn, heisonly1 and moose may want to try explaining such discrepencies to us!

Wasallaam, Dan.

ALL ancient scripture tells the ancient stories in different ways and with variations even withing the Bible as with the two stories of the days of creation in Genesis. You have different amounts of animals be in taken into the Ark by Noah. Your selective emphasis of pointing at errors in Quran for ancient stories is hypocritical to say the least.

[Dan Zebiri]

Heisonly1,

I was actually refering to the PLAGUES THAT AFFLICTED Pharoah and the Egyptians!

I honestly cannot consider verses 107 & 108 of surah 7 to be PLAGUES AS SUCH!!

My contention, Badger boy, if you had read properly, was that the Quran is in error to state only 5 PLAGUES in its record!

A large snake eating up the smaller snake is NOT a plague, and neither is the hand that did not get diseased from someones body!

Verses 107/108 are merely acts done to convince and open the hearts and minds of Pharoah and his people. When they (he-pharoah) still refused to capitulate, THEN God sent THE PLAGUES AS Punishment to his/their stubbornness and hardness of heart.

The Quran still cannot enumerate 9 PLAGUES! Because I cannot consider the first 2 you proposed as [B]plagues [/B]BY ANY MEASURE..!!

That is still an internal contradiction for the Quran - the missing Plagues..!

Then of course, the Quran has completely left out the event of the Passover - which was the real and critical reason Phaoroah was finally forced to release Moses and the Israelites out of Egypt for good! - The Exodus event.

THIS was THE PLAGUE THAT broke pharoah's stubborn back. It was not merely a sign, but a God-sent plague turned into personal tragedy for Pharoah that clinched the matter and released the jews.

There were TEN plagues in all ACTUALLY, and not merely just NINE, in the historical records of Israelite and Jewish history. Thus the Quran is again in error and inaccurate, historically .

Wasalaam, Dan.

[Dan Zebiri]

Hi Barn,

Well, it existed there - and still exists in Israel's and Jewish natrional history and record. That the event of the Passover - was real and actually happened in Egypt.

The details of this event is here: Exodus 12: 29-32!

After this event, ONLY THEN were the Jews finally released from Egypt - and they secured their permanent release from Pharoah (even though he tried to chase them a little later - but failed). BUT NOT Before that event of the Passover - only the Jews were spared from that!

How were they spared?

The Passover

12:1 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, 2 “This month shall be for you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year for you. 3 Tell all the congregation of Israel that on the tenth day of this month every man shall take a lamb according to their fathers' houses, a lamb for a household. 4 And if the household is too small for a lamb, then he and his nearest neighbor shall take according to the number of persons; according to what each can eat you shall make your count for the lamb. 5. Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male a year old. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats, 6 and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs at twilight.

7 “Then they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. 8 They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted on the fire; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it. 9 Do not eat any of it raw or boiled in water, but roasted, its head with its legs and its inner parts. 10 And you shall let none of it remain until the morning; anything that remains until the morning you shall burn. 11 In this manner you shall eat it: with your belt fastened, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. And you shall eat it in haste. It is the Lord's Passover. [12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord. 13 The blood shall be a sign for you, on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague will befall you to destroy you, when I strike the land of Egypt.


14 “This day shall be for you a memorial day, and you shall keep it as a feast to the Lord; throughout your generations, as a statute forever, you shall keep it as a feast. 15 Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall remove leaven out of your houses, for if anyone eats what is leavened, from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel. 16 On the first day you shall hold a holy assembly, and on the seventh day a holy assembly. No work shall be done on those days. But what everyone needs to eat, that alone may be prepared by you. 17 And you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you shall observe this day, throughout your generations, as a statute forever. 18 In the first month, from the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread until the twenty-first day of the month at evening. 19 For seven days no leaven is to be found in your houses. If anyone eats what is leavened, that person will be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is a sojourner or a native of the land. 20 You shall eat nothing leavened; in all your dwelling places you shall eat unleavened bread.”

21 Then Moses called all the elders of Israel and said to them, “Go and select lambs for yourselves according to your clans, and kill the Passover lamb. 22 Take a bunch of hyssop and dip it in the blood that is in the basin, and touch the lintel and the two doorposts with the blood that is in the basin. None of you shall go out of the door of his house until the morning. 23 For the Lord will pass through to strike the Egyptians, and when he sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the Lord will pass over the door and will not allow the destroyer to enter your houses to strike you. 24 You shall observe this rite as a statute for you and for your sons forever. 25 And when you come to the land that the Lord will give you, as he has promised, you shall keep this service. 26 And when your children say to you, ‘What do you mean by this service?’ 27 you shall say, ‘It is the sacrifice of the Lord's Passover, for he passed over the houses of the people of Israel in Egypt, when he struck the Egyptians but spared our houses.’” And the people bowed their heads and worshiped.

28 Then the people of Israel went and did so; as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron, so they did.

Do read the rest of the account in Exodus 12, Barn.

Regards, Dan.

[heisonly1]

Dan Zebiri - Heisonly1,

I was actually refering to the PLAGUES THAT AFFLICTED Pharoah and the Egyptians!

I honestly cannot consider verses 107 & 108 of surah 7 to be PLAGUES AS SUCH!!

My contention, Badger boy, if you had read properly, was that the Quran is in error to state only 5 PLAGUES in its record!

A large snake eating up the smaller snake is NOT a plague, and neither is the hand that did not get diseased from someones body!

Verses 107/108 are merely acts done to convince and open the hearts and minds of Pharoah and his people. When they (he-pharoah) still refused to capitulate, THEN God sent THE PLAGUES AS Punishment to his/their stubbornness and hardness of heart.

The Quran still cannot enumerate 9 PLAGUES! Because I cannot consider the first 2 you proposed as plagues [/B]BY ANY MEASURE..!!

[b]That is still an internal contradiction for the Quran - the missing Plagues..!

Wrong again Danny boy, wrong wrong wrong !!!!!!!

Again referring to your false and miscontrued mode of argumentation, logic and interpretation regarding the 9 SIGNS stipulatd in the Quran.

Pay close attention now Danny boy, the Quran explicitly proclaims 9 SIGNS of Moses, NOT 9 PLAGUES of Moses. This is a compelling critical difference, which you comprehend not that totally debunks your erroneous internal Quranic contradiction myth !!!!!!

The 9 SIGNS of moses INCLUDE the PLAGUES of Moses Danny boy.

In other words, QURANICALLY, each miracle or plague presented by MOSES is COLLECTIVELLY referred to as 'SIGNS', NOT 'PLAGUES' !!!!!

In order for an apparent INTERNAL QURANIC CONTRADICTION to exist danny boy, you need to illustratre that 'PLAGUES' and 'SIGNS' mean one and the same thing according to Quranic interpretation and meaning !!!!

Again, here are the 9 SIGNS for you Danny boy!!!

106. (Pharaoh) said: "If indeed thou hast come with a SIGN, show it forth,- if thou tellest the truth."

107. Then (Moses) threw his rod, and behold! it was a serpent, plain (for all to see)! (ONE)

108. And he drew out his hand, and behold! it was white to all beholders! (TWO)

130. We punished the people of Pharaoh with famine (THREE) and shortness of crops (FOUR); that they might receive admonition.

133. So We sent [plagues] on them: Wholesale death (FIVE), Locusts (SIX), Lice (SEVEN), Frogs (EIGHT), And Blood (NINE): SIGNS openly self-explained: but they were steeped in arrogance,- a people given to sin.

Pay close attention to verse 7:133. The Quran describes the following plagues "Wholesale death, Locusts , Lice , Frogs , And Blood" as "SIGNS" OPENLY SELF EXPLAINED", NOT 'PLAGUES' , Just as the Quran also describes the events regarding the rod of Moses that became a serpent and his hand that became illuminated in white, AS 'SIGNS' NOT 'PLAGUES' !!

106. (Pharaoh) said: "If indeed thou hast come with a Sign, show it forth,- if thou tellest the truth."

107. Then (Moses) threw his rod, and behold! it was a serpent, plain (for all to see)!

108. And he drew out his hand, and behold! it was white to all beholders!

Therefore, Danny Boy the only internal conradiction that exists is in your faulty and deceptive interpretations and argumentation. I'm not lauging this time because your arrogance and mode of argumentation has gone beyond the joke !! Seriously !!!

Then of course, the Quran has completely left out the event of the Passover - which was the real and critical reason Phaoroah was finally forced to release Moses and the Israelites out of Egypt for good! - The Exodus event.

THIS was THE PLAGUE THAT broke pharoah's stubborn back. It was not merely a sign, but a God-sent plague turned into personal tragedy for Pharoah that clinched the matter and released the jews.

There were TEN plagues in all ACTUALLY, and not merely just NINE, in the historical records of Israelite and Jewish history. Thus the Quran is again in error and inaccurate, historically .

Because the Quran chooses not to stipulate the tenth biblical plague, does not mean its a contradiction or an historical error danny boy.

Going by your own dubious logic danny boy, the fact that the synoptic Gospels record sayings or events in the life of Jesus that are not included in the Gospel of John and visa versa, would imply/translate, by your own bogus logic, that both the Synoptic Gospels and the Gospel of John are in error, inaccurare and historically flawed !!! hahahahhahaah sorry I couldn't help not laughing May God Almighty forgive me !!!

[barnasha]

Read the Quranic passage again, barn,

Surah 7/133 : So We sent (plagues) on them: Wholesale death, Locusts, Lice, Frogs, And Blood: Signs openly self-explained: but they were steeped in arrogance,- a people given to sin.

- Even the quranic translator himself says that 'Plagues' = signs, above!

So its not an assertion, barn, but what the quranic text itself states..!

Yes, the discrepancy I want to point out is that the Quran's version of this episode between Moses and Pharoah itself, IS INCORRECT AND ERRONEOUS.

The Quran states 'nine signs' when in actual fact, there was MORE THAN THAT! There were in reality TEN Signs or Plagues, it was the tenth plague that finally and ULTIMATELY caused the release of the People of Israel.

The Quran record also deletes & expunges the event of the Passover, which is central to the historical context and the national History of the Israelites. The Jews and Israel have been celebrating the Passover event, ever since the time it occurred, in Moses' time, right through Jesus Christ's own era and time, until today.

Regards, Dan.

That's a different excerpt altogether.

As far as i see it, the word 'plagues' was not translated from the word 'signs', so it doesn't have to do with the translator, does it?

You can't possibly mean to argue that since plagues were considered signs, that any use of the word 'signs' must without question refer to those plagues, or do you?

the word 'sign' is a common thing in the quran, for example the word for a verse means a 'sign'

[Dan Zebiri]

Hi again Barn,

And here I'll reply both to you and to heisonly1.

Surah 7/133 : So We sent (plagues) on them: Wholesale death, Locusts, Lice, Frogs, And Blood: Signs openly self-explained: but they were steeped in arrogance,- a people given to sin.

When you read this verse and the other related ones like them, understand that God worked supernaturally in 2 ways.

One - was when He challenged the egyptian pagans to a duel of sorts - with Moses as the man on God''s side. Here, twice the pagans were defeated by God through Moses-but not by the plagues, but only by the miracles.

Two - IN SPITE of such clear defeat, the pagans refused to submit and pharoah refused to let Israel free from captivity.

THATS WHEN God decided to punish their belligerance and stubborness WITH PLAGUES OR CALAMITIES!

The first 2 signs were not calamities of any kind!! They were NOT PLAGUES BY ANY MEASURE!

What caused pharoah to give in finally, were not the 'signs' of Moses confrontation with the egyptians, but it was the plagues that befell the people and ultimately the event of the Passover which broke pharoah's back and opened the gates for the Israelites final release!

What I am asking or stating is, that the Quran is also incomplete factually and inaccurate historically to ignore, or leave out such a momentous and decisive as the Passover event that actually led to the Exodus of the Jewish people.

Its the same kind of error as in surah 28 and surah 40, with Pharoah asking HAMAN - who never existed in his time, to build a tower for Pharoah :

And Pharaoh said, "Council, I know not that you have any god but me. Kindle me, Haman, a fire upon the clay, and make me a tower, that I may mount up to Moses' god; for I think that he is one of the liars."
Sura 28:8,38

Pharaoh said, "Haman, build for me a tower, that haply so I may reach the cords, the cords of the heavens, and look upon Moses' God; for I think that he is a liar."
Sura 40:36-37

Wassalaam, Dan.

[mastralvarado]

What I am asking or stating is, that the Quran is also incomplete factually and inaccurate historically to ignore, or leave out such a momentous and decisive as the Passover event that actually led to the Exodus of the Jewish people.

Its the same kind of error as in surah 28 and surah 40, with Pharoah asking HAMAN - who never existed in his time, to build a tower for Pharoah :

And Pharaoh said, "Council, I know not that you have any god but me. Kindle me, Haman, a fire upon the clay, and make me a tower, that I may mount up to Moses' god; for I think that he is one of the liars."
Sura 28:8,38

Pharaoh said, "Haman, build for me a tower, that haply so I may reach the cords, the cords of the heavens, and look upon Moses' God; for I think that he is a liar."
Sura 40:36-37

Wassalaam, Dan.

HELLO Dan,

I know that this post is not directed towards me, yet I have a question.
Historically: I can see a quantitative peculiarity.
Qualitatively: I see a historical peculiarity.

However, the words Pharaoh used are his own.

Q: Are you trying to pass judgement on the narrator or on what the character in the story is saying?

Now, do you see the possibility that Hanan was another historical character which is not the one you think?

Do you get it now?