Another Glaring Factual Discrepency in the Quran

[barnasha]

Some of us think of each other as human beings, not mere categories.

I respect you guys, as long as you show respect for others.

this was not about Christian or Muslim.

[reletomp]

The Samaritan error in Quran is not an error!
Samaritan means a man from Samaria.
Samaria is found in new archaeological surveys to be existant in 1700 BC the name of the area known as samaria now.
So the Samaritan of Moses was a man from Samaria, as simple as that end of the story!

[Dan Zebiri]

Yoohooo reletomp,

Kindly furnish us with actual sources from reputable & responsible relevant scholarship, that Samaria 'existed in 1700 BC'!

Else, we - especially me, will just take all you said with a very LIGHT pinch of Salt!! :-)))

Thanks in advance & tata...!

Dan Z.

[reletomp]

Wee haa
Sure I will!

Amrna tablets mentions name place SMR in Canaan.
Many scholars and reputable journals say that it is Samaria Weee Haaaa.

Ramesses II mentions a city of His SMR of Ramesses in Canaan too.

The BIBLE itself WEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
in Kings 13:32 the prophet of Jerobam mentions the cities of Samaria!!!!!!!!!!!!
100 years before Omri built his new city (Samaria) from Scratch!

German websites of Bible textologist ( big shot scientists) claim that there are many discrepencies in Kings and Chronicles and Ezra and Nehmia and Ester since all these books the Tetragum (YHWH) is not mentioned ( an indication they were not made by prophets but made by later forgers
of rabbinical extract of 120 AD and later.

Since it is obvious that Omri did not by the land for the city Samaria from a man named Samar but rather the city existed before his time ( like the verse from Kings three chapters back!!!)

The excavations of the Samaria ruins found pots that are dated 200 years before the time of Omri and behind the wall of the house where these pots were found there was another house ( obviously from a earlier era by 400 years) this brings us to 1400 BC 200 years before the time of Moses and the Samaritan of Moses.
Quran mentions The Samaritans not Samaritans!

so Samaritan is a man who comes from Samaria and Bostonian is a man who comes from Boston.
Place Name is older than people-name ( according to scientists), so Moscovites were named on the Moscow river not the other way around.
The final evidence is an article mentions that Samaria was reported in 1700 BC and it refers to its people as masters in Sorcery ( just like the Samaritan of the Quran).

Finally:
Excavations in Samaria revealed 10 peices of Calf images denoting the God YHWH in the time of kingdom of Israel, an indication that the people of samaria ( pre Isralites in Holy land) were obcessed with the calf image for God, and the people of the Israel kingdom followed in their footsteps yet again ( after the Moses incident by 400 years).

This evidence proves that the Quran is a miracle, since how could Muhammad in the 7th century AD know that there was Samaria before Moses and this only revealed to us in the 20th century!!!!

[reletomp]

the info about the SMR of Tel-Amarna Tablet or SMR in Ramesses chronicles are all over the internet.
as for Samaria before Omri it is in the bible itself 1Kings 13:32

[Mountain Man]

You call yourself a conservative Christian, and yet you defend the Quran. I find that inexplicable.

[Dan Zebiri]

Now its your turn to have your ludicrous bubble burst...

He [Allah] said, "We have tempted thy people since thou didst leave them. The Samaritan has led them into error." Then Moses returned ...
... and we cast them [(gold) ornaments], as the Samaritan also threw them, into the fire." (Then he brought out for them a Calf, a mere body that lowed; and they said, "This is your god, and the god of Moses, whom he has forgotten.") ...
Moses said, "And thou, Samaritan, what was thy business?" ...
-- Sura 20:85-88, 95

We all KNOW about those verses from the OT mentioning Samaria, so its redundant for you to quote them to me!

BUT how can a Samaritan have led the Israelites astray at the time of Moses [about 1400 B.C.] when the city of Samaria was founded by King Omri in about 870 B.C. (see 1 Kings 16:24)?

But "the Samaritans" as a distinct people only emerged after the exile of the Northern kingdom of Israel and the resettlement of the area under king Sargon II in after 722 B.C. with non-Israelites which then adopt a syncretism [mixture] between the religion of the Jews and their own polytheistic background. Hence, it is historically impossible that a Samaritan could have led the Israelites into idolatery in the time of Moses. This is another time compression of at least 500, but rather 700 years.

Muslim translators like Yusuf Ali etc knew about this Quranic error and contradiction with historical facts, so just see what they tried to do to avoid it :
It is interesting to notice that while Yusuf Ali attempts to change this word to "Samiri" and Pickthall to "As Samirii." Arberry in the English, and Kasimirski in the French both correctly translate it "Samaritan." Yusuf Ali, in his footnotes, "bends over backwards" to explain his choice by suggesting that the name could mean "Shemer," which denotes a stranger, or "Shomer," which means a watchman, the equivalent of "Samara" in Arabic, which he implies is close enough to the Samari he is looking for. But the Arabic simply does not give Ali the leeway to concoct other meanings for this word. To be consistent with the Arabic he should keep his translation consistent with the text, as Arberry and Kasimirski have done.

Moreover, your 'modern discovery' theory is already debunked here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Respo.../samaritan.htm

No, th Quran IS NOT MIRACULOUS AT ALL, never by a very LOOOONNGG Shot!

Instead, it has loads of even more contradictions and severe inconsistent errors EXPOSED here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/index.html

Regards, Dan.

[Dan Zebiri]

Har har Mountain Man,

Methinks you were shooting at the wrong duck, my friend..!

I find the inconsistencies and contradictions in the Quran really INDEFENSIBLE, Actually and in truth! Don't you?

Have a nice day & Shalom, Dan.

[reletomp]

I don't understand you really?
I just told you that there was at least two places before the time of Moses named SMR ( one in the exact place of Samaria) and the other near the Syrian city Tartous!!
So you pick up and choose which place you prefer that Samaritan came from ?
if he came from any of these two cities then he is called Samaritan!
Omri did not build the city Samaria from Scratch, and the Masoretci bible ( actually 1kings is not part of the Bible!)
so the discrepency in 1Kings not the Quran!!!!
and it is a miracle, because how could a man in the 7th century (2000 years after Moses time) had known that a place called Sanaria existed before and During Moses time.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You Dan are unable to refute this evidence at all. You lost this round so lets move to another debative topic.

[mastralvarado]

I don't understand you really?
I just told you that there was at least two places before the time of Moses named SMR ( one in the exact place of Samaria) and the other near the Syrian city Tartous!!
So you pick up and choose which place you prefer that Samaritan came from ?
if he came from any of these two cities then he is called Samaritan!
Omri did not build the city Samaria from Scratch, and the Masoretci bible ( actually 1kings is not part of the Bible!)
so the discrepency in 1Kings not the Quran!!!!
and it is a miracle, because how could a man in the 7th century (2000 years after Moses time) had known that a place called Sanaria existed before and During Moses time.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You Dan are unable to refute this evidence at all. You lost this round so lets move to another debative topic.

Ask a Samaritan where his/her label comes from. Samaritans are still around although they are few.

[reletomp]

Can't you see from 1Kings that the Place-name Samaria was in existance 100 years before Samaria city was built???????:
here enjoy:

1Ki 13:32 For the saying which he cried by the word of the LORD against the altar in Bethel, and against all the houses of the high places which [are] in the cities of Samaria, shall surely come to pass.


1Ki 13:33 ¶ After this thing Jeroboam returned not from his evil way, but made again of the lowest of the people priests of the high places: whosoever would, he consecrated him, and he became [one] of the priests of the high places.

1Ki 16:23 In the thirty and first year of Asa king of Judah began Omri to reign over Israel, twelve years: six years reigned he in Tirzah.


1Ki 16:24 And he bought the hill Samaria of Shemer for two talents of silver, and built on the hill, and called the name of the city which he built, after the name of Shemer, owner of the hill, Samaria

[mastralvarado]

Can't you see from 1Kings that the Place-name Samaria was in existance 100 years before Samaria city was built???????:
here enjoy:

1Ki 13:32 For the saying which he cried by the word of the LORD against the altar in Bethel, and against all the houses of the high places which [are] in the cities of Samaria, shall surely come to pass.


1Ki 13:33 ¶ After this thing Jeroboam returned not from his evil way, but made again of the lowest of the people priests of the high places: whosoever would, he consecrated him, and he became [one] of the priests of the high places.

1Ki 16:23 In the thirty and first year of Asa king of Judah began Omri to reign over Israel, twelve years: six years reigned he in Tirzah.


1Ki 16:24 And he bought the hill Samaria of Shemer for two talents of silver, and built on the hill, and called the name of the city which he built, after the name of Shemer, owner of the hill, Samaria

I think I read somewhere that Samaritans are not called that because of the place they lived, but from their forefather Shimron.
Would you like a link?
Enjoy:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...samaritan.html
Add: The hill you mentioned would have also have had to been named by something/someone a priori I'm sure.

[reletomp]

yes samaria was named thus for thousands of years before omri built his samaria city

[reletomp]

and The Sameri of Exodus in Quran means a person from Sameria area not a person from the Samaritans ( neither Samaritans as jewish and non Jewish inhabitants of Sameria, neither Samerians as the current Samaritans call themselves as a sect meaning Guardians of the Book)
The Sameri has nothing to do with Samaritans people, but every thing to do with Sameria area, an area that was famous from ancient times ( thousands of years before Moses) in Sorcery and molding Calf image for to represent God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is why it is a miracle that a person in 7th century could impossibly knew obscure details about Samaria area in Palestine before the Israelites that was famous in calf image making and sorcery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dan Zebiri]

Too bad for you, reletomp, your reaching to desperate lengths to justify the ridiculous claim about as-samiri in your Quran absolutely and totally FAILS TO CONVINCE me - and many of us here, about the so-called 'miraculous nature of the Quran!

I find your re-classifying of the samaritian character simply amusing and also a very desperate and cunning attempt but ultimately nothing other than RIDICULOUS! You cannot dispute the factual rebuttals of such re-packaging of the facts from www.answering-islam.org here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Respo.../samaritan.htm

Try studying the above link which is simply fmuch more actual and extensive, expecially in its response to saifullah! Your pathetic reply is not even the beginning of any response to that!

Also, IF - Big IF, the quran is really miraculous, then why are there so many ERRORS -OF MANY VARIOUS KINDS, in it?? Like these, just for starters, below:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran....html#histcomp

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran...nce/index.html

Far from having 'lost' the argument, I am still waiting some sensible answer from you to intelligebly justify your islamic propoganda!

Dan Z.