Another Glaring Factual Discrepency in the Quran

[reletomp]

Hi Dan:
why are you avoiding the debate?
The debate is about the Samaritan word error in the Quran!
and I say there is no error.
If you have any thing against the evidence, why don't mention them?

the evidence as follows:

1-Place names precede People names! a scientific fact.
So a SAMERI means a person from Samera area!
2- Three Place names are found active at the time of Moses:

Sumer in south Iraq.
Simiry or Simyra on the Lebanese coast
Samaria in Samaria Palestine.

Hence Sameri could be any one of these places?

3- Sameri could be coming from the root word of Samer meaning Guard.
Moses warned the Israelites not to cross into the Mountain of Horeb, and he made marks on the ground so they know the borders of the mountains, and he assighned Guards ( Samerians!)
to guard the border.
The Sameri here is just one of the guards, or may be he was the only Guard assigned by Moses for this purpose!
the word Samer is mentioned literally by God to Moses concerning the above instruction in Exodus.
So if God himself mentions the word at the time of the story of the making of the Calf image story, then using a word Sameri (guard is very probable, since these related to the instructions of God himself in the Story.!

Can you just refute any one of the above (concerning Samaritan word use in Moses time the Golden Calf story)?
If you can not, then I win, and I deserve my 50,000 dollars reward, or at least your acknowledgement!?

[Dan Zebiri]

Stubborn denier arent you..!!

Thus far, I see you not even winning half-a-dime...! Much less ten dollars OR even an acknowledgement from me!

For there is absolutely NO BASIS FOR you to get any!!

The error remains, and you never even read www.answering-islam's factual proof for that!

The "Samaritan" Error In The Qur'an

Introduction

After we had published our response, the "Islamic Awareness" team [a total of five authors] re-wrote their essay The "Samaritan" Error In The Qur'an? Their updated version contains little new information – except for an attempt to criticize the historicity of 2 Kings in order to wiggle the Qur'an out of its historical contradiction of placing a Samaritan in the time of Moses and the Exodus. The authors prefer to recycle many of their old arguments, therefore, I inserted my responses, to what little new material was added, into this article.

In this wordy and convoluted essay, the "Islamic Awareness" team attempts to muddle the history of the Samaritans in order to make it appear that Samaritans, as a distinct ethno-religious group, existed at the time of the Exodus. According to the Qur'an, a Samaritan led the Hebrews into idol worship while Moses was receiving the Law on Mount Sinai (Sura 20:85-87, 95-97). The problem with this claim is that the Samaritans were not known as a distinct ethno-religious group until around 722 B.C., when the term "Samaritan" was coined (cf. this short, introductory article). Therefore, the "Islamic-Awareness" team attempts to enlarge the possible definition of the term "Samaritan" to be broad enough to provide the possibility that a "Samaritan" could have existed during the time of the Exodus.

Who were/are the Samaritans?

There are three ways in which the term "Samaritan" can be used:

1. The term "Samaritan" can be used to define a person in terms of geography. Samaritans were the inhabitants of the region of Samaria, an area north of Judea and south of Galilee on the western shore of the Jordan River. The capital of this region was also originally called Samaria – rebuilt and renamed "Sebaste", in honor of Augustus Caesar, by Herod the Great.

2. The term "Samaritan" can also be used to define a person in terms of physical descent and ethnicity. Samaritans believe that they are the descendants of the Israelite tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh, who made up most of the northern kingdom of Israel, with some blood from the Assyrians and Greeks. The "Islamic Awareness" team employs a bizarre version of this definition to attempt to place a "Samaritan" in the time of the Exodus.

3. "Samaritan" is also a term which describes/defines this group's religion. The Bible views the Samaritans mostly from the religious definition, but also refers to the Samaritans as a distinct group based on descent and ethnicity. The basic tenants of the Samaritan faith are:

1. There is One God.
2. Moses is the one and only Prophet.
3. The Torah.
4. Mount Gerizim [not Mount Zion] is the place of worship.
5. Belief in the Day of Judgement and Recompense [accepted as doctrine some time after 200 A.D.].

The most extensive Biblical discussion of the Samaritans is found in John 4, and perfectly demonstrates that the Bible defines Samaritans according to a definition based on their religion, as well as alluding to their national origins, or physical descent.

In this passage, Jesus was passing through the region of Samaria where he met a Samaritan woman. The story continues [John 4:7-22]:-

Jesus said to her, "Give me a drink." For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. The Samaritan woman said to him, "How is it that you, a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria?" For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans. Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water." The woman said to him, "Sir, you have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep; where do you get that living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, and his sons, and his cattle?" Jesus said to her, "Every one who drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst; the water that I shall give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life." The woman said to him, "Sir, give me this water that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw." Jesus said to her, "Go, call your husband, and come here." The woman answered him, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You are right in saying, ‘I have no husband’; for you have had five husbands, and he whom you now have is not your husband; this you said truly." The woman said to him, "Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain; and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews."

This passage clearly defines Samaritans as a religious group [as opposed to showing them as a regional or ethnic group]. Jesus provides us with several Jewish opinions concerning the Samaritans: (1) the vessels of the Samaritans are ritually impure, (2) the Samaritans are sexually permissive [the woman in this passage had five husbands and a boyfriend], and (3) the religious rites and practices of the Samaritans were wrong – they prayed on the wrong mountain and worshiped in ignorance. The point of this particular story is that if a corrupt Samaritan recognized Jesus as a Prophet, then why don't the Jews?

It is also interesting to note that the Samaritan woman made a claim that is similar to one that the "Islamic Awareness" team makes for the Samaritan people [in her reference to "our father Jacob" in verse 12] ?that they are the true Israel, or "the observant" according to "Islamic Awareness". The "Islamic Awareness" team should note that Jesus rejected this claim by saying:-

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

In this passage, Jesus asserts the truth of the Jewish faith against the Samaritan religious system. Jesus also makes a distinction between the Jews and Samaritans based on their national origins.

Jesus never made such a distinction with the Galileans, for example.

Samaritans Or Samarians?

The "Islamic Awareness" team attempts to unlink the connection between the "Samaritans" from the geographical region of Samaria. This is an attempt to wiggle the Qur'an out of the problem of having a Samaritan in the time of Moses – five to seven centuries before anyone could be called Samaritan. The anachronism clearly proves that the Qur'anic tale of the Samaritan tempting the Hebrews to worship a golden calf is historically and factually incorrect. Simply put, Samaria, as a geographical place name, did not exist during the time of the Exodus. Therefore, no one could have possibly been a citizen of a place that did not exist.

In order to accomplish this goal, the "Islamic Awareness" team provides us with the quote from The Interpreter's Dictionary of The Bible:


... the Samaritans prefer to style themselves 'Shamerim' i.e., "the observant" – rather than 'Shomeronim' i.e., "the inhabitants of Samaria."

The "Islamic Awareness" team distinguishes between the name shomronim, which appears in 2 Kings 17:29, and shamerim, meaning "keepers" or "observers", which the "Islamic Awareness" team claims is the name that the Samaritans use for themselves since it refers to their being the keepers or observers of the Torah.

What makes this position so ironic is that the "Islamic Awareness" team has basically proven that the Quran is incorrect for placing one of the shamerim at the time of Moses! The Quran expressly says that as-Samiri was there with the Israelites even before Moses was given the Torah:

(When Moses was up on the Mount, God said:) "What made thee hasten in advance of thy people, O Moses?" He replied: "Behold, they are close on my footsteps: I hastened to thee, O my Lord, to please thee." (God) said: "We have tested thy people in thy absence: the Samiri has led them astray." So Moses returned to his people in a state of indignation and sorrow. He said: "O my people! did not your Lord make a handsome promise to you? Did then the promise seem to you long (in coming)? Or did ye desire that Wrath should descend from your Lord on you, and so ye broke your promise to me?" They said: "We broke not the promise to thee, as far as lay in our power: but we were made to carry the weight of the ornaments of the (whole) people, and we threw them (into the fire), and that was what the Samiri suggested. "Then he brought out (of the fire) before the (people) the image of a calf: It seemed to low: so they said: This is your god, and the god of Moses, but (Moses) has forgotten!" Could they not see that it could not return them a word (for answer), and that it had no power either to harm them or to do them good? Aaron had already, before this said to them: "O my people! ye are being tested in this: for verily your Lord is (God) Most Gracious; so follow me and obey my command." They had said: "We will not abandon this cult, but we will devote ourselves to it until Moses returns to us." (Moses) said: "O Aaron! what kept thee back, when thou sawest them going wrong, "From following me? Didst thou then disobey my order?" (Aaron) replied: "O son of my mother! Seize (me) not by my beard nor by (the hair of) my head! Truly I feared lest thou shouldst say, 'Thou has caused a division among the children of Israel, and thou didst not respect my word!'" (Moses) said: "What then is thy case, O Samiri?" He replied: "I saw what they saw not: so I took a handful (of dust) from the footprint of the Apostle, and threw it (into the calf): thus did my soul suggest to me." (Moses) said: "Get thee gone! but thy (punishment) in this life will be that thou wilt say, 'touch me not'; and moreover (for a future penalty) thou hast a promise that will not fail: Now look at thy god, of whom thou hast become a devoted worshipper: We will certainly (melt) it in a blazing fire and scatter it broadcast in the sea!" But the god of you all is the One God: there is no god but He: all things He comprehends in His knowledge. S. 20:83-98

The Quran claims that As-Samiri was instrumental in leading the people to fashion and worship the golden calf. It was at this specific juncture that Moses came down from the mount with the stone tablets:

The people of Moses made, in his absence, out of their ornaments, the image of calf, (for worship): it seemed to low: did they not see that it could neither speak to them, nor show them the way? They took it for worship and they did wrong. When they repented, and saw that they had erred, they said: "If our Lord have not mercy upon us and forgive us, we shall indeed be of those who perish." When Moses came back to his people, angry and grieved, he said: "Evil it is that ye have done in my place in my absence: did ye make haste to bring on the judgment of your Lord?" He put down the tablets, seized his brother by (the hair of) his head, and dragged him to him. Aaron said: "Son of my mother! the people did indeed reckon me as naught, and went near to slaying me! Make not the enemies rejoice over my misfortune, nor count thou me amongst the people of sin." Moses prayed: "O my Lord! forgive me and my brother! admit us to Thy mercy! for Thou art the Most Merciful of those who show mercy!" Those who took the calf (for worship) will indeed be overwhelmed with wrath from their Lord, and with shame in this life: thus do We recompense those who invent (falsehoods). But those who do wrong but repent thereafter and (truly) believe,- verily thy Lord is thereafter Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. When the anger of Moses was appeased, he took up the tablets: in the writing thereon was guidance and Mercy for such as fear their Lord. S. 7:148-153
In light of the foregoing discussion, how could there have been an "observer" or "keeper" of the Torah when there was, at that point in history, no Torah to "observe" or "keep"?

Moreover, liberal-critical scholarship dates the composition of the Torah, in its final form, sometime after the return of the Jews from the Babylonian captivity in the sixth century B.C. (Source).

Since the "Islamic Awareness" team likes to appeal to liberal-critical scholarship to undermine the Bible, they need to consistently apply their criticisms against the Qur'an. They must accept the fact that the Quran has committed a gross chronological error by placing the wrong person at the wrong time in the wrong place.

The "Islamic Awareness" team's attempt to convince us that the shomronim are the "keepers" and "observers" of the Torah simply fails to solve the Qur'an's anachronistic use of the term "Samaritan."

The Qur'an names the man who tempted the Israelites into worshiping the golden calf "as-Samiri" which, according to Muslim scholars, means "the Samaritan". If the Qur'anic "As-Samiri" is not a geographic appellation for the Samaritan, could it be a religious designation?

Surah 20:85 tells us:

(Allah) said: "We have tested thy people in thy absence: the Samiri has led them astray."

If were are to believe the "Islamic Awareness" claim that "as-Samiri" really comes from the term 'Shamerim', then how can the Qur'an call a man, who practices and leads others into the grave sin of idolatry, "the observant", or "keeper" of the Torah ?ignoring for the moment the fact that the Torah did not exist at that point in history? Also, in the interest of linguistic and historic accuracy, the Samaritans, according to Coggins ?an author quoted several times by the "Islamic Awareness" team – called themselves "Israel." [Samaritans, p. 10]. They also use the terms Myrim and Nyiram which they claim mean "keepers" or "observers" of the truth, or the Law of God. (Source)

So, where did Muhammad get the weird notion that a Samaritan was present during the Exodus? After all, the account of Exodus does not mention a "Samaritan". Muhammad's little tale is, however, half-correct. The Samaritans did, in fact, worship a golden calf, but not during the time of Moses.

According to 1 Kings 12, Jeroboam, who was the king of northern Israel, feared that:-

"The kingdom will now likely revert to the house of David. If these people go up to offer sacrifices at the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem, they will again give their allegiance to their lord, Rehoboam king of Judah. They will kill me and return to King Rehoboam." [1 Kings 12:26-27]

In order to preclude this from happening, Jeroboam built a temple in Samaria [the capital of the Northern Kingdom] to draw the faithful away from the temple in Jerusalem. Jeroboam's temple had two statutes of golden calves.

1 Kings 12: 28-30 tells us:

"After seeking advice, the king made two golden calves. He said to the people, "It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem. Here are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt." One he set up in Bethel, and the other in Dan. And this thing became a sin; the people went even as far as Dan to worship the one there.

The Prophet Hosea also wrote about this northern temple:

They set up kings without my consent; they choose princes without my approval. With their silver and gold they make idols for themselves to their own destruction. Throw out your calf-idol, O Samaria! My anger burns against them. How long will they be incapable of purity? They are from Israel! This calf梐 craftsman has made it; it is not God. It will be broken in pieces, that calf of Samaria. [Hosea 8:4-6]

It is reasonable to conclude that Muhammad conflated two Biblical events – which occurred centuries apart – to form his Qur'an's odd, and historically and factually incorrect, little tale of the "Samaritan" who tempted the Hebrews into idol worship.

Surah 20:97 amplifies the aforementioned conclusion:-

(Moses) said: "Get thee gone! but thy (punishment) in this life will be that thou wilt say, 'touch me not'; and moreover (for a future penalty) thou hast a promise that will not fail: Now look at thy god, of whom thou hast become a devoted worshipper: We will certainly (melt) it in a blazing fire and scatter it broadcast in the sea!"

This passage tells us that the Samaritans were regarded as "untouchable", or spiritually unclean, by the Jews because of their worship of idols. However, Moses could not have placed this status on the Samaritans because there were no Samaritans in his time. The Jews gave the Samaritans this status many centuries later.

The Origin Of The Samaritans

There are three theories as to the origins of the Samaritans:-

The Jewish view. The Samaritans are the descendants of the colonists that King Shalmaneser, of Assyria, brought from Cutha, Babylon, Hamath, and other foreign regions after he conquered Samaria in 722 B.C.. King Shalmaneser then deported the native population according to 2 Kings 17.

Samaritan view: The Samaritans are remnants of the northern Israelite tribes who were left behind when their brethren were deported by the Assyrians.

Modern Scholars: The Samaritans are descendents of Mesopotamian tribes who were deported by the Assyrians and Babylonians to Samaria. This is, in part, the opinion of Shen et. al.'s genetic study of the Samaritan haplogroup, which the "Islamic Awareness" team cites.

It appears that all three explanations of the origins of the Samaritans are correct, at least to some degree. Foreign deportees did, in fact, mingle with the local Israelite remnants. This mixed community developed a divergent Jewish sect sometime between the 800 and 500 B.C.

The "Islamic Awareness" team objects to this conclusion. However, these theories are not mutually exclusive and do fit the genetic study, which the "Islamic Awareness" team cites, but does not link to the online version, which tells us:

Based on the close relationship of the Samaritan haplogroup J six-microsatellite haplotypes with the Cohen modal haplotype, we speculate that the Samaritan M304 Y-chromosome lineages present a subgroup of the original Jewish Cohanim priesthood that did not go into exile when the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom of Israel in 721 BC, but married Assyrian and female exiles relocated from other conquered lands, which was a typical Assyrian policy to obliterate national identities.

This is in line with biblical texts that emphasize a common heritage of Jews and Samaritans, but also record the negative attitude of Jews towards the Samaritans because of their association with people that were not Jewish.

The "Islamic Awareness" team concludes:-

Until the middle of the 20th century it was commonly believed that the Samaritans originated from a mixed race people living in Samaria at the time of the Assyrian conquest (722-721 BCE). In recent years however, new research based on a more careful study of the Chronicles of the Samaritans has led to a re-evaluation of their origins. Specifically, with the publication of Chronicle II (Sefer ha-Yamim), the fullest Samaritan version of their own history became available.

First, in regard to the Chronicles of the Samaritans, we have a "chronic chronology" problem. Lester L. Grabbe, of the University of Hull says:

The Chronicles are a mine field of problems. On the one hand, they claim to trace the Samaritan religion back to Moses and to give an account of their history independently (at least, in part) of the OT. On the other hand, all the Chronicles are late, some of them from the 19th or even 20th century in their present form. Study of them is not far advanced, and Samaritan specialists have reached no consensus on their inter-relationships.

The "Islamic Awareness" team often attempts to discredit various Qur'an borrowing theories on the grounds that many of the parallels found in sources outside of the Qur'an exist in manuscripts written much later than the Qur'an, and conclude that the Qur'an could not have borrowed these tales. In this instance, the "Islamic Awareness" team demonstrates their hypocrisy by attempting to use a text dating from around the 19-20th century A.D. to discredit a text which has existed for over 2 thousand years!

The "Islamic Awareness" team concludes with their most bizarre and desperate explanation to wiggle the Qur'an out of its problem of having a Samaritan tempt the Israelites centuries before there were Samaritans:-

A historical analysis of this chronicle reveals that the Samaritans are the direct descendants of the Joseph tribes, Ephraim and Manasseh, and until the 17th century C.E. they possessed a high priesthood descending directly from Aaron through Eleazar and Phinehas. The common ancestry of both the Jews and Samaritans was also established by recent genetic studies, going back to cohen or the Jewish priestly family. This study also validated both local and foreign origins of the Samaritans.

In the first place, no one has denied that the Jews and the Samaritans have common ancestors. The genetic studies [to which the "Islamic Awareness" team refers, but does not provide a link to the online version] confirms the Biblical view of the origins of the Samaritans:

Based on the close relationship of the Samaritan haplogroup J six-microsatellite haplotypes with the Cohen modal haplotype, we speculate that the Samaritan M304 Y-chromosome lineages present a subgroup of the original Jewish Cohanim priesthood that did not go into exile when the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom of Israel in 721 BC, but married Assyrian and female exiles relocated from other conquered lands, which was a typical Assyrian policy to obliterate national identities. This is in line with biblical texts that emphasize a common heritage of Jews and Samaritans, but also record the negative attitude of Jews towards the Samaritans because of their association with people that were not Jewish.

The "Islamic Awareness" team is attempting to imply that since the Samaritans are descendents of the Jewish Cohanim, then they must have been around during the time of the Exodus! This is a very incorrect and bizarre conclusion, to say the least.

All humans on this planet are descendents of people who were alive during the time of the Exodus, however, all of the ethno-religious groups, which developed over time, cannot/do not seriously claim to have been present at the foot of Mount Sinai when Moses was receiving the law!

This "Islamic-Awareness" team did not like this argument, so they reach for the usual fallacies of the ad-hominem argument – accusing me of not reading the article although, unlike their article, my article links to the online version so that others can read it and reach their own conclusions. They also set up a straw-man argument [that I somehow believe that genetic information disappears when one changes religions]. Both of these fallacies are weak attempts to distract attention from the discussion at hand and to continue to imply that since the Samaritans are descendents of the Jewish Cohanim, then they must have been around, as a distinct group, during the time of the Exodus!

READ the rest of the facts here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Respo.../samaritan.htm

So, theres nothing about the "samaritian building the Golden Calf" in the Quran that is really true, factually!

Dan.

[reletomp]

why are you telling me all this stuf I am not the islamic awareness club, nor are they the official representives of Islam or muslims.
I read their article:
on summery their article says that the christians and jews themselves don't know what the difinition of Samaritans are?
were they named samaritans based on the place name Samaria, or based on the title Guardians of the Torah as the samaritans say their name is derived from (Guard=Samer)
or based on the name Shomron the father of samaritans as some claim!
so they say how can you accuse Quran about the Samaritan word if you yourself are differed in your difinition and origin of name of samaritans the sect that came about 750 BC while Moses was before 1200 BC!

I have told you that Samaritan name scientifically should be related to a name place and there were 3 places named Samar at 1200 BC (sumer of Iraq, Simyra of Lebanon, and Samaria itself in Palestine).
Plus the word Samaritan could be derived from the root word Samer Hebrew for Guard in which God in Exodus verse tells Moses to tell the Israelites to be on Guard (Samer) not to cross the boundaries of the mountains, and that Moses according to commentaries on the bible did indeed assign Guard ( Samaritans) to guard the boundaries!
The last option is to attach the name Samaritan to a People name (Samaritans a sect that came about in 750 BC and later.

Can you deny that God used the word Samer in Exodus speaking to Moses?
Can you deny that there were three areas in the Middle East by the name Samara at time of Moses 1200 BC and before?
If you protest any of these facts, then present them please?
otherwise acknowledge my winning of the debate and that Samaritan word use in Moses story is feasable and scientific.

[Narnian]

You call yourself a conservative Christian, and yet you defend the Quran. I find that inexplicable.

He's doing Dawa via Taqqiya. Translation: he is doing missionary work through deception. it's a fairly common phenomenon. Mo used to do it - Allah still does .....

[barnasha]

He's doing Dawa via Taqqiya. Translation: he is doing missionary work through deception. it's a fairly common phenomenon. Mo used to do it - Allah still does .....

Your comment is disrespectful to christians who use the word Allah to refer to God (any Arab christian does)


Not to mention it is disrespectful to muslims by referring to Muhammad as "Mo".

You can make your points much better if you do it with class.

[Narnian]

Your comment is disrespectful to christians who use the word Allah to refer to God (any Arab christian does)

people are not so stupid to fall for your silly trap

Not to mention it is disrespectful to muslims by referring to Muhammad as "Mo".

Why should I respect a pedophile murderer who stoned a depressed single mother to death!? He deserves much worse names than just a shortened one.

You can make your points much better if you do it with class.

You rarely even MAKE points, let alone respond to them

[reletomp]

Now where is my reward from Dan Zibri.
I proved that Samaritan word in Quran is not an error!
nobody was able to refute myclues

also:
In a re-assessment of the Samaria pottery from levels below the building attributed to Omri, L. E. Stager claims it belongs to the eleventh and tenth centuries B.C., as G. E. Wright had done after the appearance of the Samaria volume (Wright 1959).
http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/ar...n_millard.html
evidence that Samaria existed at time of Moses!

[reletomp]

So
if a book from the 13th century mentions a man called Bostonian, you would say that is impossible because Boston was not built in Massachussetes USA till the 18th century??

There was another city in England named Boston!

There is also a small Palestinian village called Samera. and if a palestinian asked another palestinain "where are from"
and the other Palestinian answered "I am sameri" ,
does that mean the guy is a member of the Jewish religious sect Samritans???

Are you deaf?

I already explained , that In Archaeology science!
Place names are older that groups names.
for example Moscow river name predates Moscow city name.

and that the root for any name or title is rendered on place names first , if not found a place name by this name, this a village name, then if not, a group name, this is the process the scientists use.

so If a man is Called Sameri, you check if there is a place name called Samera first.
and there was two places by the name Samera at the time of Moses:

Samaria itself in Palestine,
and Smyra on the syrian coast mentioned in the Akhnaton Tel-Al Amarna Letters 1400 BC.
There was even Sumeria in South Iraq as far back as the 3500 BC.


Sameri also could be rooted back to the root word Samr, meaning guard, of wich word the Samaritan sect themselves root their name to "ie guardians of the bible"


In the Bible there is the name Muhammad used several times such as uhammad Furniture meaning good furniture.

why you are forcing rooting the word sameri in the quran to mean a member of the Samaritan sect!

even though science does not allow it as I explained now!

[Dan Zebiri]

Rele-tomp-tomp,

Hey there...! Its NOT ME that is calling 'as-samiri' in your quran as 'the samaritan', MUSLIM 'scholars' and translators - like Yusuf Ali, Pickthall and M.Asad call him that!

So, you have an issue WITH THEM, and not with ME! Ask THEM WHY, they do call him that!

At any rate, all of you ARE WRONG, because it is not as-samiri who actually made that made the Golden calf, but it was Nabi Harun ie. Aaron, brother of Nabi Musa - Moses, who was the guilty one!

Its just the baseless and false islamic theological bias known as 'Ismat / ma'asum' that forces muslims to never admit the failures, failings and even the sins of the Prophets that is behind this and other baseless fabrications in the Quran.

Of course, the very same reason makes the Quran to claim that Jesus 'never died on the Cross'! A denial of a historically-attested and verified factual event, 2,000 years ago!

Dan.

So
if a book from the 13th century mentions a man called Bostonian, you would say that is impossible because Boston was not built in Massachussetes USA till the 18th century??

There was another city in England named Boston!

There is also a small Palestinian village called Samera. and if a palestinian asked another palestinain "where are from"
and the other Palestinian answered "I am sameri" ,
does that mean the guy is a member of the Jewish religious sect Samritans???

Are you deaf?

I already explained , that In Archaeology science!
Place names are older that groups names.
for example Moscow river name predates Moscow city name.

and that the root for any name or title is rendered on place names first , if not found a place name by this name, this a village name, then if not, a group name, this is the process the scientists use.

so If a man is Called Sameri, you check if there is a place name called Samera first.
and there was two places by the name Samera at the time of Moses:

Samaria itself in Palestine,
and Smyra on the syrian coast mentioned in the Akhnaton Tel-Al Amarna Letters 1400 BC.
There was even Sumeria in South Iraq as far back as the 3500 BC.


Sameri also could be rooted back to the root word Samr, meaning guard, of wich word the Samaritan sect themselves root their name to "ie guardians of the bible"


In the Bible there is the name Muhammad used several times such as uhammad Furniture meaning good furniture.

why you are forcing rooting the word sameri in the quran to mean a member of the Samaritan sect!

even though science does not allow it as I explained now!

[barnasha]

Of course, the very same reason makes the Quran to claim that Jesus 'never died on the Cross'! A denial of a historically-attested and verified factual event, 2,000 years ago!

Dan.

I guess you missed the post before where you were corrected on this, so I'll say it again. The quran does not say "Jesus did not die on the cross"

it says... the raving seething people who hate others "did not kill him", but that God saved him

If one were more like the former than the latter, one might not notice the difference.

quick ... on to your next attack!

[Dan Zebiri]

Well, in ANY case, the quran (and yours too) is WRONG again and again and again in the whole matter!

And your sardonic reference to me as 'seething' etc, is too amusing and comical for me to respond to! As you yourself are engaging - hypocritically, in what are 'personal attacks' on me, barney!

Far from seething, I am just frankly declaring the quran WRONG in denying the death of Jesus Christ at the hands of His enemies!

I am doing this with a very level and calm head, rested and fully assured that the facts and history are TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY ON MY SIDE!

The so-called 'difference' is merely basesless and false POLEMICS emitting from your side. It is nothing more than hot, imaginary AIR that originates from islamic/muslim theological bias rather than the REAL hard facts itself!

Your idea 'that God saved Jesus' from His violent death on the Cross is totally FALSE!

Actually , God ALLOWED JESUS TO DIE ON THAT CROSS!

Then, ONLY THREE DAYS LATER, did Jesus Christ RAISE HIMSELF BACK FROM THE DEAD.

This is NOT a saving act by God! BUT a resurrection from the dead, as Jesus Himself declared and prophesied THAT WOULD BE HAPPENING TO HIM!

And the reputable schoalrs all agree that God never saved Jesus from that cross, but allowed Him to go through that crucifixion up to the very end. And THAT venet itself had a really SIGINIFICANT purpose - for the whole wide world, including to you and your muslim friends.

A fact that you continually celiberately choose to conveniently & foolishly IGNORE, IN SPITE OF THE FACTS!

Dan.

[smaneck]

I am doing this with a very level and calm head, rested and fully assured that the facts and history are TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY ON MY SIDE!

People who are calm and level headed don't use caps except in LORD. Nor do the have an obsessive need to go around trouncing other people's religions. If their religion was so good they would be able to present it in a positive manner without knocking anyone else's.

[Dan Zebiri]

Look at misquotations & gross misrepresentations that you are continually making about Jesus Christ around here!

Mainly due to your islamic readings and filters / blinkers that you are subscribing to.

These misquotes need to be exposed and revealed for what they truly are! Otherwise you are just peddling more falsehoods that are bound to mislead many more gullible people!

Dan

[barnasha]

Look at misquotations & gross misrepresentations that you are continually making about Jesus Christ around here!

Mainly due to your islamic readings and filters / blinkers that you are subscribing to.

These misquotes need to be exposed and revealed for what they truly are! Otherwise you are just peddling more falsehoods that are bound to mislead many more gullible people!

Dan

If anything needed to be exposed it's your engagement in attacking other people and other religions on this board, rather than making well-formed and respectable arguments. But this so blatantly obvious, there is nothing really to expose...

Just as one need not expose the town drunk as an alcoholic.

[Dan Zebiri]

Say what you like to insult other people!

I will continue to expose your inordinate attacks - however sly or subtle they are, on the Christian faith and the Biblical record.

Dan.