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Thread: Religious Minorities In Islamic Nations

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    tWebber
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    Religious Minorities In Islamic Nations

    I am concerned over reports of how religious minorities are treated in Islamic nations. It seems that Muslims who immigrate to non-Islamic nations celebrate and rely on liberal, pluralistic religious sensitivities because it allows them to practice, proliferate, and make provision for Islamic law in non-Islamic nations and spread their influence with freedom, and there is often aggressive protest and outcry if these liberties are curtailed.

    Let's now turn our attention to Islamic-dominated countries. Let's start with a simple example using myself. As a Christian (who, let's say, speaks Arabic fluently), moved to Saudi Arabia and a few months later decided I would like to peacefully hand out pamphlet's for the purpose of Christian evangelism - What would happen to me?
    Last edited by Scrawly; 12-15-2015 at 04:25 PM.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    As a Christian, do you believe, like Paul, "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain."?

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    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    As a Christian, do you believe, like Paul, "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain."?
    In theory....Yes! In practicality...um...

    yes?...
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrawly View Post
    I am concerned over reports of how religious minorities are treated in Islamic nations. It seems that Muslims who immigrate to non-Islamic nations celebrate and rely on liberal, pluralistic religious sensitivities because it allows them to practice, proliferate, and make provision for Islamic law in non-Islamic nations and spread their influence with freedom, and there is often aggressive protest and outcry if these liberties are curtailed.

    Let's now turn our attention to Islamic-dominated countries. Let's start with a simple example using myself. As a Christian (who, let's say, speaks Arabic fluently), moved to Saudi Arabia and a few months later decided I would like to peacefully hand out pamphlet's for the purpose of Christian evangelism - What would happen to me?
    That's not being peaceful - that's inciting people to blaspheme Mohammed.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    That's not being peaceful - that's inciting people to blaspheme Mohammed.
    Classic case of totalitarianism?

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    tWebber
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    It is fine to criticize particular practices of Saudi Arabia...but broad generalizations based on (one specific territory) Saudi as an example can lead to incorrect assumptions. Saudi practices a Wahabi type of Islam. Proselytization of other types of Islam are also not allowed.

    There are 49 Muslim-Majority countries (The OIC--organization of Islamic Co-operation has 57 members) In some Muslim-Minority countries---large communities/Territories are Muslim-Majority.
    "Major languages spoken by Muslims include Arabic, Urdu, Bengali, Punjabi, Malay, Javanese, Sudanese, Swahili, Hausa, Fula, Berber, Tuareg, Somali, Albanian, Bosnian, Russian, Turkish, Azeri, Kazakh, Uzbek, Tatar, Persian, Kurdish, Pashto, Balochi, Sindhi and Kashmiri, among many others...." Wikipedia

    Muslim-minority countries that respect the right to identity (nasl) and the right to conscience/religion (Deen) are respecting Islamic values. Muslim-Majority countries that do not respect these rights are not following Islamic values.

    The Maqasid al Sharia (purpose of law) gives 5 general areas of protection of rights........
    Conscience/religion (deen)
    life (nafs)
    identity/heritage (nasl)
    intellect (aql)
    Property/wealth (mal)

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    It is fine to criticize particular practices of Saudi Arabia...but broad generalizations based on (one specific territory) Saudi as an example can lead to incorrect assumptions. Saudi practices a Wahabi type of Islam. Proselytization of other types of Islam are also not allowed.

    There are 49 Muslim-Majority countries (The OIC--organization of Islamic Co-operation has 57 members) In some Muslim-Minority countries---large communities/Territories are Muslim-Majority.
    "Major languages spoken by Muslims include Arabic, Urdu, Bengali, Punjabi, Malay, Javanese, Sudanese, Swahili, Hausa, Fula, Berber, Tuareg, Somali, Albanian, Bosnian, Russian, Turkish, Azeri, Kazakh, Uzbek, Tatar, Persian, Kurdish, Pashto, Balochi, Sindhi and Kashmiri, among many others...." Wikipedia

    Muslim-minority countries that respect the right to identity (nasl) and the right to conscience/religion (Deen) are respecting Islamic values. Muslim-Majority countries that do not respect these rights are not following Islamic values.

    The Maqasid al Sharia (purpose of law) gives 5 general areas of protection of rights........
    Conscience/religion (deen)
    life (nafs)
    identity/heritage (nasl)
    intellect (aql)
    Property/wealth (mal)
    Hello my friend,

    So basically a particular interpretation of the Quran, that seems to be quite popular in Saudi Arabia, is to blame for the suppression and persecution of religious minorities? Would it then be fair to assume that there are movements within Islam and voices by Quran-believing Muslims that are fighting for the rights of these persecuted minorities in countries such as Saudi Arabia?
    Last edited by Scrawly; 12-18-2015 at 07:47 AM.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrawly View Post
    Hello my friend,

    So basically a particular interpretation of the Quran, that seems to be quite popular in Saudi Arabia, is to blame for the suppression and persecution of religious minorities? Would it then be fair to assume that there are movements within Islam and voices by Quran-believing Muslims that are fighting for the rights of these persecuted minorities in countries such as Saudi Arabia?
    particular interpretation of the Quran---(exegesis) Tafsir....there are many Tafsir both in Arabic and in other languages. Apart from Tafsir, there are various schools of Islamic philosophy that also influence/bias a Quran interpretation (Mutazilite, Asharite, Murtadi....) The Arabic Quran is itself the same (same as the Uthmani codex)--there are no differences in the Quran (Sunni/Shia use the same Quran). Sharia (there are 5 major schools (madhab) and probably some minor ones) influences how these interpretations are practiced.

    Takfirism (exclusivity/only one right way and its mine)---Some types of Islam (Purists) suffer from Takfirism. This type of outlook causes rigidity, encourages prejudice, forms strong identity-constructs (which can lead to excessive enthusiasm/zealotry)...

    Wahabism (18th century)---Is a Modern construct. (Purists movements are all modern constructs that came about as a reaction to colonialism/modernity). In Saudi, Wahabism leads to persecution of non-Wahabi minorities (including other types of Muslims)...which means reform needs to come from within the Wahabi/Salafi establishment....but in other places, where other types of Islam have been practiced and Wahabism is a newer idea...tradition can be used to appeal to fight towards justice and equality. I don't know much about Saudi Arabia...but there are people there who are striving towards justice and equality.

    a 13th century philosopher called Ibn Taymiyya has had influence on Wahabism (as well as modern jihadist). He had some profound insights and interesting ideas...but also some troubling (Takfiri) ideas as well.....probably because he lived in troubling times (Mongol invasion...etc)

    did I answer the question?...if not please ask again....

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    particular interpretation of the Quran---(exegesis) Tafsir....there are many Tafsir both in Arabic and in other languages. Apart from Tafsir, there are various schools of Islamic philosophy that also influence/bias a Quran interpretation (Mutazilite, Asharite, Murtadi....) The Arabic Quran is itself the same (same as the Uthmani codex)--there are no differences in the Quran (Sunni/Shia use the same Quran). Sharia (there are 5 major schools (madhab) and probably some minor ones) influences how these interpretations are practiced.

    Takfirism (exclusivity/only one right way and its mine)---Some types of Islam (Purists) suffer from Takfirism. This type of outlook causes rigidity, encourages prejudice, forms strong identity-constructs (which can lead to excessive enthusiasm/zealotry)...

    Wahabism (18th century)---Is a Modern construct. (Purists movements are all modern constructs that came about as a reaction to colonialism/modernity). In Saudi, Wahabism leads to persecution of non-Wahabi minorities (including other types of Muslims)...which means reform needs to come from within the Wahabi/Salafi establishment....but in other places, where other types of Islam have been practiced and Wahabism is a newer idea...tradition can be used to appeal to fight towards justice and equality. I don't know much about Saudi Arabia...but there are people there who are striving towards justice and equality.

    a 13th century philosopher called Ibn Taymiyya has had influence on Wahabism (as well as modern jihadist). He had some profound insights and interesting ideas...but also some troubling (Takfiri) ideas as well.....probably because he lived in troubling times (Mongol invasion...etc)

    did I answer the question?...if not please ask again....
    Thanks! Can you please give me an example of the bolded (Quran-believing Muslims striving for justice and equality in Saudi Arabia)?

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    tWebber
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    Not sure what "Quran believing Muslims" means since all Muslims believe the Quran (as revelation)....but there are some Muslims who are calling for a "Quran only" type of Islam...however, these would not be in Saudi Arabia as Wahabism is very conservative and the Quran only types are considered "progressives"(at least by Westerners)---however, this group has very little appeal within Mainstream Islam.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middl...alman-al-Ouda#

    http://www.pen.org/press-release/200...s-saudi-arabia


    There is a toxic level of prejudice against (non-Western) foreign workers and the countries from which these workers come, are also working an safeguarding the interests of their citizens....

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