Announcement

Collapse

Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

666 and RFID chips

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 666 and RFID chips

    Alexander Pope wrote:
    A little learning is a dangerous thing;
    Drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring.
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.

    (In Greek mythology the Pierian spring was a fountain which was sacred to the Muses and imparted learning to anyone who drank from it.)

    There are times when having just a little learning about what the Bible says can be a dangerous thing.


    Most people have heard of the mark of the beast and they know that it is associated with the number 666 but don’t know anything else about it. One result is that many people are afraid they will take the mark without meaning to and be eternally condemned as a result. Here are two examples.

    The first is from a news story by UPI.
    A Kentucky high school student athlete declined to participate in her team’s cross-country race after she was assigned the number 666, saying it would have gone against her religious beliefs.

    The number 666 is often associated with the biblical “mark of the beast.”

    The second is a post on a Christian forum.
    Hey guys so I’m 17 and after high school I would like to join the military (AIR FORCE!!!) but I’ve read online they might start RFIDing soldiers. I’m worried if I do enlist I will be forced to get the chip and if it turns out to be the mark of the beast…well I’m done for I guess. So can someone tell me about this? Are they really going to do this? If so is the RFID chip the actual mark of the beast? I would appreciate any help I can get guys.

    Are their fears justified? The best way to answer this question is to look at what the Bible actually says about the mark of the beast. First the beast is introduced.
    And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.

    One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”
    Revelation 13:1-4 ESV

    The beast will receive power and authority from the dragon, Satan, and will become an object of worship for the whole world.
    And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them.

    And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. If anyone has an ear, let him hear:

    If anyone is to be taken captive,
    to captivity he goes;
    if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
    with the sword must he be slain.

    Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
    Revelation 13:5-10 ESV

    Then a second beast is introduced.
    Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.

    It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived.

    And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.
    Revelation 13:11-15 ESV

    Finally everyone on the earth is required to take the mark.
    Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

    This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
    Revelation 13:16-18 ESV

    The mark of the beast will be given at a time when the beast is ruling the earth and is already requiring that he be worshipped. An order will be issued requiring everyone to take the mark. There will be laws in effect that forbid anyone without the mark to buy or sell. None of those conditions exist today so it isn’t possible for anyone to receive the mark now.

    The number 666 will be associated in some way with the beast but now it is just a number like any other. It is simply one more than 665 and one less than 667. It might not even be the number of the beast. There are some manuscripts of Revelation that have the number 616 instead.

    It is possible that taking the mark may include implanting an RFID chip as a means of identification but if that is true the chip itself won’t be the mark; it will only be a tool used to implement it. An RFID chip is simply a device that can be used for either good or evil purposes. Perhaps the beast will use it for evil; that shouldn’t keep others from using it for good.

    Sometimes having only a little knowledge can be dangerous; the way to remove this danger is to acquire more knowledge. If you are afraid you might accidentally take the mark the best way to overcome your fear is to study Bible prophecy to learn more about what will happen in the future.

    If you want to learn more about prophecy here is a good place to start:

    https://www.raptureready.com/abc/abc.html
    The brutal, soul-shaking truth is that we are so earthly minded we are of no heavenly use.
    Leonard Ravenhill

    https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/

  • #2
    Originally posted by theophilus View Post
    There are times when having just a little learning about what the Bible says can be a dangerous thing.
    That much I agree with.
    When I Survey....

    Comment


    • #3
      You can not be tricked into taking the mark. It is a matter of worship of the beast. Yes.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

      Comment


      • #4
        It is at least interesting - if nothing more - that the placement of the MotB appears to allude to this passage:

        Deu 6:6 “These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
        Deu 6:7 “You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.
        Deu 6:8 “You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.

        IOW - maybe St John is treating as evil something that the Jews regarded as sacred. In view of the hostility of the Fourth Gospel - a major Johannine writing - towards "the Jews", maybe the idea has something to be said for it.

        Such an interpretation, if well-founded, would mean that the passage was yet another allusion to the Exodus in a book that contains many allusions to it. It could also mean that these Jews form a contrast to the sealed Jews in Rev.7 - that passage also echoes Ezekiel 9.4, in which those saved from the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar are by God's command marked with a taw-brand, to show they are His. By contrast, the Jews marked with the MotB are marked by it as subject to the First Beast - and, by implication, go to destruction with him. The cruciform shape of the taw - a St Andrew's cross - might prompt a Christian interpretation of it as foreshadowing the Cross of Christ.

        The First Book of Maccabees mentions that some apostate Jews in the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes (175-164) tried to ingratiate themselves with the new Hellenising regime in Jerusalem, by undergoing an operation to reverse their circumcision - the sign of God's Covenant, and of their belonging to Him. The First Beast in Rev 13 has some Antiochus-features, so maybe it is not a stretch to suggest that the persecution and desecration under Antiochus IV were in St John's mind when he wrote this passage of Revelation; especially if the book, or part of it, was written during the Jewish War.

        Given the many vagaries of interpretation to which Revelation in particular has been subjected, anything resembling dogmatism in saying what this or that passage may mean is not a good idea.

        One of the problems with seeing RFID chips in the text, is that this idea requires the First Beast to be around in a culture in which that technology is used. In a culture in which such things are as obsolete as the phonograph or coats of chain mail, the use of RFID chips (& a Biblical allusion to them) would be pointless; so the interpretation requires the First Beast to appear in a culture that uses them, and not something else. A problem with a futurist interpretation is that if these visions are of events in St John's future, they might also be in the interpreters' future - and there is no telling when that future may be. It might, from our POV, be very soon - or in a hundred years' time - or in ten thousand years' time. Futurism might not be an appropriate method by which to read the book (IMHO, it is not). St John may have been talking of RFID chips; or, he may have been referring to entities familiar to his readers in their culture, rather to entities familiar to his later readers in theirs.

        Comment


        • #5
          I can remember when there was a lot of hoopla over bar codes and that they were the mark of the beast and how people would be forced to get them tattooed on their body.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Thing is, it was perfectly rational to be alarmed about bar code technology, credit cards and digital currency. There was nothing like it prior to that technology once it became commonplace in society -- what like the 60s-70s? Then immediately came the internet. There has been nothing like this in history that made Rev 13 possible in a literal sense. Though these are all just steps leading in that inevitable direction, since then, technology has exponentially increased at dizzying speed, which increases multifold with each following decade -- or as Kurzweil termed it: law of accelerating returns. The stage we're presently at now, the technology is there. However form it takes, whether it's specifically RFID or not is moot. The technology is possible, so it's now just a matter of populace sentiment willing to accept such a system. That can change rather rapidly too with any number of potential global disasters.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by theophilus View Post
              Alexander Pope wrote:
              A little learning is a dangerous thing;
              Drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring.
              There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
              And drinking largely sobers us again.

              (In Greek mythology the Pierian spring was a fountain which was sacred to the Muses and imparted learning to anyone who drank from it.)

              There are times when having just a little learning about what the Bible says can be a dangerous thing.


              Most people have heard of the mark of the beast and they know that it is associated with the number 666 but don’t know anything else about it. One result is that many people are afraid they will take the mark without meaning to and be eternally condemned as a result. Here are two examples.

              The first is from a news story by UPI.
              A Kentucky high school student athlete declined to participate in her team’s cross-country race after she was assigned the number 666, saying it would have gone against her religious beliefs.

              The number 666 is often associated with the biblical “mark of the beast.”

              The second is a post on a Christian forum.
              Hey guys so I’m 17 and after high school I would like to join the military (AIR FORCE!!!) but I’ve read online they might start RFIDing soldiers. I’m worried if I do enlist I will be forced to get the chip and if it turns out to be the mark of the beast…well I’m done for I guess. So can someone tell me about this? Are they really going to do this? If so is the RFID chip the actual mark of the beast? I would appreciate any help I can get guys.

              Are their fears justified? The best way to answer this question is to look at what the Bible actually says about the mark of the beast. First the beast is introduced.
              And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.

              One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”
              Revelation 13:1-4 ESV

              The beast will receive power and authority from the dragon, Satan, and will become an object of worship for the whole world.
              And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them.

              And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. If anyone has an ear, let him hear:

              If anyone is to be taken captive,
              to captivity he goes;
              if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
              with the sword must he be slain.

              Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
              Revelation 13:5-10 ESV

              Then a second beast is introduced.
              Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.

              It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived.

              And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.
              Revelation 13:11-15 ESV

              Finally everyone on the earth is required to take the mark.
              Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

              This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
              Revelation 13:16-18 ESV

              The mark of the beast will be given at a time when the beast is ruling the earth and is already requiring that he be worshipped. An order will be issued requiring everyone to take the mark. There will be laws in effect that forbid anyone without the mark to buy or sell. None of those conditions exist today so it isn’t possible for anyone to receive the mark now.

              The number 666 will be associated in some way with the beast but now it is just a number like any other. It is simply one more than 665 and one less than 667. It might not even be the number of the beast. There are some manuscripts of Revelation that have the number 616 instead.

              It is possible that taking the mark may include implanting an RFID chip as a means of identification but if that is true the chip itself won’t be the mark; it will only be a tool used to implement it. An RFID chip is simply a device that can be used for either good or evil purposes. Perhaps the beast will use it for evil; that shouldn’t keep others from using it for good.

              Sometimes having only a little knowledge can be dangerous; the way to remove this danger is to acquire more knowledge. If you are afraid you might accidentally take the mark the best way to overcome your fear is to study Bible prophecy to learn more about what will happen in the future.

              If you want to learn more about prophecy here is a good place to start:

              https://www.raptureready.com/abc/abc.html
              But the funny thing is that those arguments are made by people who insist that they know and understand the bible. Which raises the question: What does it mean to know the bible?

              Comment


              • #8
                Mark-of-the-Beast.jpg

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                  But the funny thing is that those arguments are made by people who insist that they know and understand the bible. Which raises the question: What does it mean to know the bible?
                  Arguing that a biblical understanding should be metaphorical or allegorical or somehow mystical is only necessary as an escape route when modern reality seems to contradict biblical scripture. For example, if one believes that humans evolved from lower primates, then it becomes necessary to take a non-literal approach to Genesis. But in the case of Rev 13, there's no reason not to interpret it literally, since the technology is now in place and exponentially increasing with each decade.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post
                    Arguing that a biblical understanding should be metaphorical or allegorical or somehow mystical is only necessary as an escape route when modern reality seems to contradict biblical scripture. For example, if one believes that humans evolved from lower primates, then it becomes necessary to take a non-literal approach to Genesis. But in the case of Rev 13, there's no reason not to interpret it literally, since the technology is now in place and exponentially increasing with each decade.
                    But every passage in the bible is controversial, what does it mean is the all encompassing question. Rushing Jaws above tied the mark to the Old Testament, which suggests that the technology was extant 3000 years ago.

                    The ancient Hebrews took it literally. And made the connection to worship and even commerce. So the question is what is the literal?

                    Each generation has some who declare with certainty that they understand St John's Apocalypse, and declare that they understand all the signs. And are able to place the times of the signs as that generation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                      But every passage in the bible is controversial, what does it mean is the all encompassing question. Rushing Jaws above tied the mark to the Old Testament, which suggests that the technology was extant 3000 years ago.

                      The ancient Hebrews took it literally. And made the connection to worship and even commerce. So the question is what is the literal?

                      Each generation has some who declare with certainty that they understand St John's Apocalypse, and declare that they understand all the signs. And are able to place the times of the signs as that generation.
                      RJ was essentially arguing that the writer of the gospel of John and Revelation was antisemitic, and that the allusion to the mark was a castigation of Deu 6:8. I doubt very many orthodox Christians, whether of the futurist or preterist flavor, would be willing to go with that interpretation lol. The ancient Christians didn't interpret Rev 13 literally because it wasn't possible to do so. Neither Nero nor Domitian (the likely time Rev was written) had the manpower to make everyone in the world not buy or sell without a certain mark. Thus they had to interpret it as metaphorical -- i.e. the world was just metaphor for Rome, the mark was probably just an idea or doctrine (a la Deu 6:8), buying and selling was just local commerce or imperial commerce, etc. -- in order for it to meet the criteria of the times. None of this was possible in a literal sense even in the 20th century until about just three or four decades ago. Now, not only will currency be entirely digital soon, but, forget RFID chips, they now can store terabytes of information in a single human cell, and even making strides in nanotechnology. In other words, the technology is already in place for this to be literal in a plausible way. It's just a matter of populace sentiment and acceptance of such a system that isn't yet plausible. But if you see my post here, I document where the UN and World Bank have already laid out a strategy and desire for global citizenry via global registration (which will unquestionably be digital). Even if the interpretation is wrong and thus just a coincidence, 21st century science and technology is providing a way for futurists to interpret Rev 13 as a literal reality, which wasn't possible at any other time in history.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post
                        RJ was essentially arguing that the writer of the gospel of John and Revelation was antisemitic, and that the allusion to the mark was a castigation of Deu 6:8. I doubt very many orthodox Christians, whether of the futurist or preterist flavor, would be willing to go with that interpretation lol. The ancient Christians didn't interpret Rev 13 literally because it wasn't possible to do so. Neither Nero nor Domitian (the likely time Rev was written) had the manpower to make everyone in the world not buy or sell without a certain mark. Thus they had to interpret it as metaphorical -- i.e. the world was just metaphor for Rome, the mark was probably just an idea or doctrine (a la Deu 6:8), buying and selling was just local commerce or imperial commerce, etc. -- in order for it to meet the criteria of the times. None of this was possible in a literal sense even in the 20th century until about just three or four decades ago. Now, not only will currency be entirely digital soon, but, forget RFID chips, they now can store terabytes of information in a single human cell, and even making strides in nanotechnology. In other words, the technology is already in place for this to be literal in a plausible way. It's just a matter of populace sentiment and acceptance of such a system that isn't yet plausible. But if you see my post here, I document where the UN and World Bank have already laid out a strategy and desire for global citizenry via global registration (which will unquestionably be digital). Even if the interpretation is wrong and thus just a coincidence, 21st century science and technology is providing a way for futurists to interpret Rev 13 as a literal reality, which wasn't possible at any other time in history.
                        While I do not believe that John is antisemitic (or even if that was Rushingjaws point), there is a strong tendency to interpret revelation in the light of the Old Testament, to tie the meaning of passages in Revelations to the Torah.

                        I think that the twentieth century history shows totalitarianism is possible, even without totally swaying the people's sentiment. (Hannah Arendt made the point that totalitarianism, total control, was not possible until the twentieth century). But history does give examples of forced worship, many post reformation wars in Europe were fought over the faith of the king, since the idea of people's faith being independent of the monarch is a recent idea. the faith of the people was expected to follow the faith of the king, neither Protestants nor Catholics were comfortable with a ruler of a different creed, because they saw no protection for freedom of conscience in faith.

                        And commercial activity has always been feared to be at the mercy of ungodly forces. That idea lays at the heart of polemics against Templars, cabals of international Jews, and the international banking system; and it spans the centuries.

                        Revelations and the mark of the Beast have political power, religious power, and commercial power in view. Each generation looks at the threats, convinced that things are in place for the end times. Some see Rome. some see aliens, some see communism; the more imaginative combine all three. Even in the eighteenth century, some saw American democracy as a threat to the established order with its rejection of authority as an anchor for society, with the leveling of distinctions and uniformity of all peoples.

                        I am not convinced that this era is really more susceptible than past generations. After the rise of totalitarianism, the counterbalance of the international order, NATO, World Bank, UN, etc., have imperfectly provided a platform to resolve problems short of war. Europe was war torn every few years, the vision men like Maritain has been implemented, and has so far worked, held in check the baser instinct of human nature and politics.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                          While I do not believe that John is antisemitic (or even if that was Rushingjaws point), there is a strong tendency to interpret revelation in the light of the Old Testament, to tie the meaning of passages in Revelations to the Torah.
                          It wasn't. Maybe I should have explained. I think St John is re-evaluating something familiar from Deuteronomy to make it a sign of belonging, not to God's People - and thus to the People of the Messiah - but to the people of the substitute Messiah. I think that for the theology of the book being Jewish is defined by having faith in Christ - so that Christian Jews count as Jews, and so do Gentile Christians, whereas non-Christian Jews do not count as Jews, just as Gentile non-Christians do not.

                          Re-evaluation of Jewish/OT things is found elsewhere in the NT. The universal dominion of the Messiah in Daniel 7 is treated in the Temptation narratives not as a legitimate hope, but as a temptation of the devil. Jesus is taken to a "high mountain", as to a second Mount Nebo: the use of the OT in the Gospel text is contrast Him with Moses and Solomon, and to re-interpret the earthly Jewish hopes of this-worldly power and salvation as a contradiction of the mission of Jesus: He does have universal domimion, but precisely because He does, it cannot be accepted from the "prince of this world". He has to be lifted up - an echo of Isaiah 6.1 ? - on the Cross first. That Christ redeemed men through the accursed and unclean death of the Cross is itself an example of this "re-evaluation".

                          Again, he enters Jerusalem riding on a donkey. That this is an allusion to Zechariah 9.9 is made explicit. Another passage which is also perhaps present is 1 Kings 1.34 - Solomon rides to his coronation on a donkey. As the "greater than Solomon", Jesus does likewise. By doing so, He replaces this-worldly, political notions of power with those of the Kingdom of God.

                          The re-evaluation and re-identification of Israel which I think is present in Revelation can be seen as a radical but logical extension of Amos' treatment of the Day of JHWH not as a day of God's vindication of Israel and Judah against the nations round about, but as a vindication of God against the nations *including* Israel and Judah. Amos undercuts their ideas about themselves, as, by means of a humourous tale, the Book of Jonah does. The Gospels take this re-evaluation further, especially by the anti-Pharisee, anti-Temple polemic; and Revelation gives us the final canonical step in the process. The NT contains a good deal about the reversal of expectations - and this is found in Revelation.

                          The OT is all over Revelation. The book is crammed with OT echoes and concepts - in chapter 13 not least. I think that looking at these echoes, and seeing how they are used in the book, can illustrate the theology, ideas, themes and meaning of the book. I think reading it as though it were "history before the events" is a false trail, and that it should be interpreted as a product of its times - as truly (though not merely) so as any other text of that period.
                          I think that the twentieth century history shows totalitarianism is possible, even without totally swaying the people's sentiment. (Hannah Arendt made the point that totalitarianism, total control, was not possible until the twentieth century). But history does give examples of forced worship, many post reformation wars in Europe were fought over the faith of the king, since the idea of people's faith being independent of the monarch is a recent idea. the faith of the people was expected to follow the faith of the king, neither Protestants nor Catholics were comfortable with a ruler of a different creed, because they saw no protection for freedom of conscience in faith.

                          And commercial activity has always been feared to be at the mercy of ungodly forces. That idea lays at the heart of polemics against Templars, cabals of international Jews, and the international banking system; and it spans the centuries.

                          Revelations and the mark of the Beast have political power, religious power, and commercial power in view. Each generation looks at the threats, convinced that things are in place for the end times. Some see Rome. some see aliens, some see communism; the more imaginative combine all three. Even in the eighteenth century, some saw American democracy as a threat to the established order with its rejection of authority as an anchor for society, with the leveling of distinctions and uniformity of all peoples.

                          I am not convinced that this era is really more susceptible than past generations. After the rise of totalitarianism, the counterbalance of the international order, NATO, World Bank, UN, etc., have imperfectly provided a platform to resolve problems short of war. Europe was war torn every few years, the vision men like Maritain has been implemented, and has so far worked, held in check the baser instinct of human nature and politics.
                          Totally agree with that second-last paragraph in particular.
                          Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 08-11-2016, 05:02 AM.

                          Comment

                          widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                          Working...
                          X