Is Christian opposition to abortion inconsistent with upholding the death penalty?

[Darth Executor]

Very well. The hypocrisy comes in when pro-lifers assert that killing a person under any circumstances, and this includes the use of condoms, is wrong,

I have met a couple such people in my life and they would not call themselves conservative, nor are you doing anything other than burning straw men. You have a problem that is commonly known as "being stupid". Get help.

[Jedidiah]

The hypocrisy comes in when pro-lifers assert that killing a person under any circumstances, and this includes the use of condoms, is wrong, and then support the death penalty, and excuse the deaths of innocents during war as acceptable because of collateral damage.

Then it is folks who may happen to be pro-life, but also any killing of human beings is wrong under any and all circumstances, who are the subjects of your post. And Theonomy, you appear to agree, is correct.

[Snarf]

It would be hypocrisy IF pro-lifers who support the death penalty made that claim "that killing a person under any circumstances, and this includes the use of condoms, is wrong." One of my points in the OP is that this is a straw man, since pro-lifers who support the death penalty simply do no tmake that claim.

Some do, like in the Catholic students' group that I attended for some time. This is the reason why the catholic church condemns the use of birth control, and why all war and other actions that result in the deaths of humans is unacceptable to the church.

[Snarf]

I have met a couple such people in my life and they would not call themselves conservative, nor are you doing anything other than burning straw men. You have a problem that is commonly known as "being stupid". Get help.

Many Catholics believe what I said-it's not a straw man. They would also call themselves conservative Catholics.

[Snarf]

Then it is folks who may happen to be pro-life, but also any killing of human beings is wrong under any and all circumstances, who are the subjects of your post. And Theonomy, you appear to agree, is correct.

Yes.

I am also pointing out that since a human being is not killed in an abortion, then it is not the same as the death penalty, and that a woman should have a right to decide what goes on inside of her body.

[Snarf]

Snarf, are you referring to the babies who died in Egypt? Or just all the babies who died during the OT as the result of war?

Additionally, what is your point? That Jesus is not the God of the OT? Or that Jesus did all the killing the OT God did, and you're not objecting to it, you're merely trying to make it sound silly? Or something else?

My point is this. Christians are supposed to act in a way that Jesus would have done. If it shown that Jesus ordered His followers to kill and rape, and additionally killed children (like in Egypt), then one cannot say that abortion is anti-Christian because it results in the death of a potential human, since Jesus had no qualms about killing humans.

[Jedidiah]

I am also pointing out that since a human being is not killed in an abortion, then it is not the same as the death penalty, and that a woman should have a right to decide what goes on inside of her body.

I'd like to point out that you are wrong!

[Snarf]

I'd like to point out that you are wrong!

In what, that a one-celled zygote is not a human being or that a woman doesn't have a right to do what she wants with her body?

[Darth Executor]

In what, that a one-celled zygote is not a human being or that a woman doesn't have a right to do what she wants with her body?

It's not the woman's body, it's the zygote's body. The woman is just a shell.

[Snarf]

It's not the woman's body, it's the zygote's body. The woman is just a shell.

Not really-the zygote is dependent on the woman's body for food and nourishment, not the other way around. The zygote does not have an independent existence. Further, it was formed from the woman, which is why the woman's body can kill the zygote spontaneously (miscarriage).

I'm still not sure why Christians who believe that God is in control of everything, and who worship a God who is reported to have killed many should have such a problem with abortions. Since God is in control of everything, then He is in control of abortions. Why do you insist that killing a fetus is wrong, but that God killing fetuses is OK?

[Bill the Cat]

Not really-the zygote is dependent on the woman's body for food and nourishment, not the other way around.

So does the baby 10 minutes before it is delivered

The zygote does not have an independent existence.

Neither does the baby 10 minutes before it is delivered. Until the umbilical cord is severed, they are intricately connected to each other.

Further, it was formed from the woman,

And the man had some input into the unique genetic makeup too.

which is why the woman's body can kill the zygote spontaneously (miscarriage).

Which is a natural process, while abortion unnaturally dilates the cervix from the outside, often causing damage and sometimes difficulty carrying later pregnancies to term.

I'm still not sure why Christians who believe that God is in control of everything, and who worship a God who is reported to have killed many should have such a problem with abortions. Since God is in control of everything, then He is in control of abortions. Why do you insist that killing a fetus is wrong, but that God killing fetuses is OK?

God takes all of our lives at one point or another, yet commanded US not to murder each other. You as a Christian should know that...

[JSDileo]

So does the baby 10 minutes before it is delivered



Neither does the baby 10 minutes before it is delivered. Until the umbilical cord is severed, they are intricately connected to each other.



And the man had some input into the unique genetic makeup too.



Which is a natural process, while abortion unnaturally dilates the cervix from the outside, often causing damage and sometimes difficulty carrying later pregnancies to term.



God takes all of our lives at one point or another, yet commanded US not to murder each other. You as a Christian should know that...

To all the people who claim that an embryo isn't a person because it relies on the mother for nourishment:

The baby is reliant on other people's care up to a very late age after birth. Up to, say, five years old, a child couldn't POSSIBLY survive without help from others. I've seen an embryo equated to a parasite because it relies entirely on the mother for survival. Well, using that logic when a baby is born it changes from a tapeworm (an internal parasite) to a case of head lice (an external parasite). I doubt that's a good argument to support abortion.

[Glenn P]

Yes.

I am also pointing out that since a human being is not killed in an abortion, then it is not the same as the death penalty, and that a woman should have a right to decide what goes on inside of her body.

Snarf, this is scientifically ludicrous, but it is also off topic for this thread. As thread starter I request that whether abortion is right or wrong, or whether a human fetus belongs to the human species or not be regarded as subjects for a different thread if you choose to take it there, but they are not the topic here.

[Darth Executor]

Not really-the zygote is dependent on the woman's body for food and nourishment, not the other way around.

Irrelevant. A woman is dependant on her lungs to provide oxygen, yet you don't call it the lungs' body. Not only that, but the baby provides aid with one of the main functions of life: reproduction. If babies didn't exist, neither would humanity. Meanwhile, I'm hoping you'll stop resurrecting these old, retarded arguments.

The zygote does not have an independent existence.

Nothing has an independent existance. If I put you in a void you'd go up like a New Year firecracker.

Further, it was formed from the woman, which is why the woman's body can kill the zygote spontaneously (miscarriage).

I can kill you spontaneously with a knife in the head, yet I doubt you'd say you were formed from me (unless we're some mutant freaks and were separated at birth). Not that it matters because it seems that you skipped a couple of sex ed classes because it was formed by both the mother and the father's cells.

I'm still not sure why Christians who believe that God is in control of everything, and who worship a God who is reported to have killed many should have such a problem with abortions.

Then you won't have a problem if we return to OT law and start stoning people like you to death.

Since God is in control of everything, then He is in control of abortions.

And justice will be given out accordingly to those that support them to the extent that you do.

Why do you insist that killing a fetus is wrong, but that God killing fetuses is OK?

This is easily the stupidest thing I've read in ages, and considering the forums I've been visiting lately, that's saying a lot. I need to get away from you.

[Glenn P]

Darth, I appreciate the reasons you find Snarf's comments so untenable, but I do ask that this not become a thread about arguments for and against abortion.

If any further posts seek to go down that road, I will have them removed.