Any reasons to be a Christian?

[Keith Rex]

bill78: Hope you are not kidding me? Of course they do not all want to kill me on sight, but the "nice" ones have no sympathy for me or disapproval of the actions of the majority.

I think the only thing that kindness and love of Gays will get you is AIDS. They show no respect for the majority who are not Gay.

If you were all Bible you might notice that Jesus was not as inclusive as they claim. He did not teach Blessed are the Gays and that we should love them. He did not contradict the rest of the Bible like he did in dietary matters. He did not specifically condemn a lot of unwholesome things, but this does not mean he approved of them!

I have heard of a few Gays who try to control their lusts and live chaste. They have a heavy cross to bear, but all the other Gays just want to kill them as traitors!

[Jim E.]

My attitude towards gay people changed when I rejected Christianity.

[Keith Rex]

Jim: You say your attitude changed, but do not mentione the dirsction nadwhy it changed? Did you reject Christianity when you discovered that so many Christains were secret Gays? Why else would they be so keen on choir boys and fancy vestments? But please be more specific as I would like to know.

[Carpedm9587]

In my experience I find that most Atheists are very unpleasant and invariably Gay and I find Gays intolerable. They are vicious lewd and have no respect for the great majority of the worlds population. I also find Christain Gays very nasty selfish people. I also find that these Atheists who are in the majority insist that if a person is not Gay they cannot be an Atheist, But you have a lot more choice with Christians. they are not all Gay.

Keith -

I don't know where your experience comes from, Keith, but it is pretty badly twisted. I travel extensively and meet a lot of people. I have never seen a link between homosexuals and atheism. In fact, most of my homosexual friends are members of a church and believe in a god - and most of my atheist friends are heterosexuals. I have no idea where you live or how you came to your experience. I suspect it is largely from the media or some fairly extreme Christian websites.

And I have NEVER heard a single atheist claim that if a person isn't gay, they can't be atheist. I am not gay - and I am very much an atheist.

Somewhere along the line, my sad friend, you picked up some very nasty hatreds and bigotries. I hope you find your way out of them. There are some very good people who are atheist, or gay, or both. You do those people a great disservice and a great harm.

To be honest, I don't have much expectation that this post will penetrate or have an impact. I suspect you are so deeply seated in your phobia and hatred that finding a way out is almost impossible. But one can always hope...

Michel

[SteveF]

I don't know where your experience comes from, Keith, but it is pretty badly twisted.

It comes from either:

a) he is a troll and not really serious
b) he is genuinely mentally ill

[Jim E.]

Jim: You say your attitude changed, but do not mentione the dirsction nadwhy it changed? Did you reject Christianity when you discovered that so many Christains were secret Gays? Why else would they be so keen on choir boys and fancy vestments? But please be more specific as I would like to know.

Post Christianity it was easy to accept gayness has a physiological origin.

[Keith Rex]

Carped: Your view is typical of both Atheists and most Christains on Forums. The only difference is that the Gay Christians avoid potty talk.

Steve: Now this is the typical Atheist response. If you are not Gay then you are memtally ill and should be killed.

Jim: Why could you not accept that it was a birth defect when you were a Christain?

[Carpedm9587]

Carped: Your view is typical of both Atheists and most Christains on Forums. The only difference is that the Gay Christians avoid potty talk.

Surprise, surprise, Keith - this is an atheist that avoids "potty talk." At least, I avoid it pretty much to the same degree the Christians on this site do. And it has nothing to do with this site - I do so in life as well.

Enought said, Keith. Either you are a troll (I'm not sure that's true), you are mentally ill (I hate to think that might be true), or you are just eccentric as heck. I favor the latter. Be that as it may, we don't have much to say to one another. I'll leave you be.

Michel

[Jim E.]

Jim: Why could you not accept that it was a birth defect when you were a Christain?

Christians view that as moral failure. My hat is off to Christians with a more tolerant view. At the same time, a more tolerant view is not biblical.

[burgy]

Does anyone have any reasons for being a Christian?
To be fair, my biggest two reasons for being an atheist are evolution and the
infinite cruelty of the concept of hell. Christians just don't know how solid the
evidence for evolution is. And I feel sorry for folks who believe in hell.

But, if anyone has a good reason or two to be a Christian, please speak up.

Jim Eisele
Genesis in Question
http://genesisinquestion.org

Hi Jim:

Long time buddy.

Yeah -- I have good reasons.

They are on my website.

1. Evolution poses no problems I can see.
2. The concept of hell is not essential to a Christian's belief.

I suspect the god you don't believe in is also one I don't believe in!

Cheers

Burgy

[cbro]

Does anyone have any reasons for being a Christian?
To be fair, my biggest two reasons for being an atheist are evolution and the
infinite cruelty of the concept of hell. Christians just don't know how solid the
evidence for evolution is. And I feel sorry for folks who believe in hell.

But, if anyone has a good reason or two to be a Christian, please speak up.

Jim Eisele
Genesis in Question
http://genesisinquestion.org

or reason to be the 1000th post.

[Jim E.]

Hi Jim:

Long time buddy.

Yeah -- I have good reasons.

They are on my website.

1. Evolution poses no problems I can see.
2. The concept of hell is not essential to a Christian's belief.

I suspect the god you don't believe in is also one I don't believe in!

Cheers

Burgy

We meet again. There are two main reasons that I bother with TWeb -

1) Outreach: A lot of people have been hurt by religion. That’s needless. As you remember well, I used to be an ardent supporter of day-age. Finally I’ve got a grip. Genesis creates so much confusion because it is simply false. Not the reality that I expected at the time. But now my truth comes without confusion and “rationalizations.” I’ve got solid science on my side. As do you. Of course, you merely referred me to your website. If your position had merit, you would just post it here.

2) Politics: The religious right scares me. I think we have common ground here.

For what it’s worth, I’d like Christianity to be true. It would be great to be wrong about atheism. I’d convert in an instant. Sign me up for that eternal bliss! But now I know a lot more than I did in my Christian days. I’m just going to continue to enjoy my freedom.

Hope things are well with you.

[Keith Johnson]

We meet again. There are two main reasons that I bother with TWeb -

1) Outreach: A lot of people have been hurt by religion. That’s needless. As you remember well, I used to be an ardent supporter of day-age. Finally I’ve got a grip. Genesis creates so much confusion because it is simply false. Not the reality that I expected at the time. But now my truth comes without confusion and “rationalizations.” I’ve got solid science on my side. As do you. Of course, you merely referred me to your website. If your position had merit, you would just post it here.

IMO it is unbelievably silly for people to be worked up so much over trivia like how old the earth is, or how it is that humanity came to be. Bad beliefs hurt people, whether or not they are religiouos or irreligious. The kind of Christianity that inspires people to horrific judgmentalism, that leads them to hate other people because those other people don't have the right theology is more akin to the leaven of the Pharisees Jesus' warned us about. Jesus defined "Christian" quite differently than the stereotype (see matthew 25 for a better definition).

2) Politics: The religious right scares me. I think we have common ground here.

I am no fan of the religious right. It seems to me that the Sermon on the Mount fits better with my moderate pacifism/socialism than with the Cheney/Bush platform. But if you are afraid of the religious right you are scared of nothing. The religious right has no real power except to annoy. The real power on the right is the power of the economic elite; the Christian conservatives are suckered by a few prayer breakfasts and "God bless America" to vote Republican, and the Republicans proceed to work on thier real agenda of unraveling the New Deal.

For what it’s worth, I’d like Christianity to be true. It would be great to be wrong about atheism. I’d convert in an instant. Sign me up for that eternal bliss! But now I know a lot more than I did in my Christian days. I’m just going to continue to enjoy my freedom.

Hope things are well with you.

Your freedom? Freedom from what? Are you saying you were less happy than you are now when you were a Christian? Freedom from delusion? What delusion? What evidence can you or anyone possibly have that there isn't a God who loves you and who has made things so that in the end you can be perfectly eternally blissful? Biblical contradictions? Assuming there are some, this at most shows that the doctrine of inerrancy is false, but that doctrine isn't essential to Christianity. Problem of evil? What evidence can you or anyone else possibly have that an infinite God hasn't taken in to account the full effects of all that he allows, and successfully used all the evil that occurred to make a great thing in the end? No evidence for those claims either, perhaps you say. For the sake of discussion let's assume you're right. Then there isn't any evidence either way. In that case, your atheism is just a contrary faith that the universe isn't organized to ultimately promote love and justice in spite of the injustice and hate we humans so often inflict on each other. What good is that faith of despair?

your friend
Keith

[DurAlvar]

Mmm... wonder how many times this ancient thread has been resurected over the years?

[Jim E.]

I am no fan of the religious right. It seems to me that the Sermon on the Mount fits better with my moderate pacifism/socialism

OK. I realize there are moderates in Christianity. Thank goodness! They are not the ones that I fear.

But if you are afraid of the religious right you are scared of nothing. The religious right has no real power except to annoy.

I don’t want to get too far away from the central issue of whether or not Christianity is true. But I believe in live and let live. I believe in war as a last resort. I believe in outlawing (abortion, gay activity, gambling, habeas corpus, ignoring the UN, ignoring the WTO, ignoring the Constitution, etc.) as a last resort. I believe in knowledge. Activities of the religious right are a threat. I know there is much more to say about this. Again, I don’t want to get too far off track here. I’ll probably just let you have the last word on this.

IMO it is unbelievably silly for people to be worked up so much over trivia like how old the earth is, or how it is that humanity came to be.

I disagree. Whether the Bible is true or false is crucial.

I know that you had much to say in your post, Keith. Much worthy of discussion. But I know that you’re perfectly capable of starting your own threads. And there’s only so much time in a day.