Nazi-Era Education Laws Return

[Dee Dee Warren]

While the German government’s use of Nazi-era laws and Stalinist abuse of psychiatry to intimidate and coerce homeschooling families should appall any American, I found the reported comments of Rome City Schools Superintendent Cooper shameful.

....

Dr. Cooper is also quoted as expressing concern that “There’s a rising tide that America is out of step with the rest of the world, and ... if Europe is able to ban this, it’s possible in America.”

...

Finally, if Dr. Cooper's comments were intended to express approval in any sense for the German government's efforts to ban homeschooling, he should be removed from his position. The German government is hunting Christian homeschool families like the Nazi's hunted Jews in the 1930's.

source

[Ryokan]

While the German government’s use of Nazi-era laws and Stalinist abuse of psychiatry to intimidate and coerce homeschooling families should appall any American, I found the reported comments of Rome City Schools Superintendent Cooper shameful.

....

Dr. Cooper is also quoted as expressing concern that “There’s a rising tide that America is out of step with the rest of the world, and ... if Europe is able to ban this, it’s possible in America.”

...

Finally, if Dr. Cooper's comments were intended to express approval in any sense for the German government's efforts to ban homeschooling, he should be removed from his position. The German government is hunting Christian homeschool families like the Nazi's hunted Jews in the 1930's.

source

Well that's stupid. On the other hand I hardly think the German government is treating Christians like Jews in the Nazi era. It wouldn't be constitutional anyway, so I am not too worried.

[Teallaura]

German or US?

[Teallaura]

http://www.irnnews.com/news.asp?acti...&article=16357

Scary stuff.

[Durthorin]

They have a point. The law could also be aimed at the Islamic schools that are turning out highly motivated young terrorists.

[Barry Desborough]

While the German government’s use of Nazi-era laws and Stalinist abuse of psychiatry to intimidate and coerce homeschooling families should appall any American, I found the reported comments of Rome City Schools Superintendent Cooper shameful.

....

Dr. Cooper is also quoted as expressing concern that “There’s a rising tide that America is out of step with the rest of the world, and ... if Europe is able to ban this, it’s possible in America.”

...

Finally, if Dr. Cooper's comments were intended to express approval in any sense for the German government's efforts to ban homeschooling, he should be removed from his position. The German government is hunting Christian homeschool families like the Nazi's hunted Jews in the 1930's.

source

Yes, all very emotive.

Most states claim a right to insist on compulsory education for minors. In Britain, it is possible to homeschool, but inspection procedures are in place to try and ensure that children receive adequate provision and that the regulations are not being taken advantage of.

Re. standards, I don't know if there are any objectively obtained comparisons of outcomes for homeschooled children and schoolschooled children. Such comparisons are difficult, and have to take into account the socio-economic profiles of the two groups, and the possibly differences in attainment aims.

One problem with withdrawl from state schooling - this is mostly done by parents paying for private schooling in Britain - is that it tends to be the most articulate and demanding parents who do it. This leaves not only a 'creaming off' effect among the pupils in the state sector, but also creates a situation in which inadequate state schooling becomes politically tolerable.

[James Peter]

They have a point. The law could also be aimed at the Islamic schools that are turning out highly motivated young terrorists.

Yep, it is in the interests of the state as a whole to integrate children into the wider culture and community because otherwise there is the very real threat that 'parallel societies' will emerge. State (and Private) schools can/should be used as a moderating influence against the tendency of religious extremists indoctrinating their children. 'Faith Schools' are bad enough, no school at all... If we want an integrated multicultural society then we have to integrate children from different social, religious and cultural backgrounds while they are still young. It really is probably the best way to combat 'home grown' terrorism.

[themuzicman]

He who exchanges freedom for security deserves neither. - Ben Franklin

[technomage]

He who exchanges freedom for security deserves neither. - Ben Franklin

He who exchanges aphorisms for accuracy deserves to be smacked in the head with a trout.

[Solly]

Barry and James are right. There has to be a balance, and it is unfortunate that it is religious groups who are championing home-schoolong. I have no problem with it as such, but we now live in a time where it is a vital weapon in world view war.

[Teallaura]

Fifteen cops going after a fifteen year old girl is balance?

[themuzicman]

He who exchanges aphorisms for accuracy deserves to be smacked in the head with a trout.

He who ignores the point because of picky details will receive the same.

[Teallaura]

Yes, all very emotive.

Most states claim a right to insist on compulsory education for minors. In Britain, it is possible to homeschool, but inspection procedures are in place to try and ensure that children receive adequate provision and that the regulations are not being taken advantage of.

Re. standards, I don't know if there are any objectively obtained comparisons of outcomes for homeschooled children and schoolschooled children. Such comparisons are difficult, and have to take into account the socio-economic profiles of the two groups, and the possibly differences in attainment aims.

One problem with withdrawl from state schooling - this is mostly done by parents paying for private schooling in Britain - is that it tends to be the most articulate and demanding parents who do it. This leaves not only a 'creaming off' effect among the pupils in the state sector, but also creates a situation in which inadequate state schooling becomes politically tolerable.

Um, does the judge calling the kids well educated count?

No one is proposing an either/or here. In the US regulation varies by state between mere notification to actual certification of testing. Most fall in the middle and the results thus far have been as good if not better than public schooling.

I'm curious, how does penalizing high performing students by insisting that they remain in less than optimal situations for them benefit low performing students? Many of otherwise high performing students become discouraged and actually start to perform sub optimally when schools are restrictive or otherwise deficient - why should they pay for the school's failing? All they do is prop up the school's numbers in terms of scoring - they aren't peer role models to encourage lower performing students.

The actual problem is 'Brown's Law' - the more successful a program the less it is funded. Its reverse is also true - the more poorly a program performs the more likely it will be reduced or eliminated. In the case of schools the better answer is to hold the schools accountable in a reasonable fashion rather than forcibly maintaining a certain student body and to hold legislators/administrators accountable for the funding and where and how it is used.

Lock step public schooling smacks of indoctrination in its worst connotation and rightfully so. A totally hands off approach by the state would be the worst form of abdication of duty - but what rule where says it has to be all or nothing either way? The objection with the German example is that it is an all or nothing approach - not that the state has no interest in the education of its children but that it is overstepping the reasonable bounds between its interests in education and its obligation to provide an environment of liberty to its citizenry.

US Constitutional case law does support the rights of parents to direct the course of their children's education while acknowledging the state's interest in setting the standards for that education. In a free society the state has no right nor compelling interest in requiring any particular set of beliefs or any particular cultural norm (outside the ones that support its existing frame of government - although US law probably would not defend that principle).

The state's interest is in maintaining or encouraging an environment that produces the optimal results in raising and educating children to become effective - not indoctrinated - citizens while maintaining the freedoms and liberties that it is duty bound (here in the US by Constitutional law) to provide all of its citizens. The strength of free nations is their ability to foster and to debate differing ideas, opinions and beliefs. Unnecessarily restricting those independent ideas actually is to the detriment of society and of the Free State.

The interesting thing is that if we grant Barry's argument then we also have to reject the notion of alternative parenting of any form - this includes divorced single since functional nuclear is always the optimal for producing the kind of citizens he advocates. There is no balance at all in his approach above (although it may be that he has not been exhaustive in his description I doubt he's got much room to make it a balanced approach) - followed to its logical conclusion children of divorced parents should be removed and of course no other alternative should be instigated.

It's the state, not the parents, that should be the most limited in its powers and which should bear the burden of proof before taking away the liberties it guarantees. This decision is the exact opposite as is Barry's argument in its support. Either/or in such broad and complex applications is bound to have far reaching and very negative consequences.

[technomage]

Ha, you wish. Once I trout-smack you, there will be no further smackage.

[Conductor42]

Well that's stupid. On the other hand I hardly think the German government is treating Christians like Jews in the Nazi era. It wouldn't be constitutional anyway, so I am not too worried.

Well, if we want to take that argument to the extreme, the whole department of Education and public education is unconstitutional. But it's here, and it's not likely to go away.