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Thread: The mob that killed Joseph

  1. #21
    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    So where did that part of the story come from?
    Probably from mistaking earlier reports of mobs dressing as actual Indians and raiding the town of Far West. See A Young Folks' History of the Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S. By Nephi Anderson, p. 80


    As I had said, it is my understanding there were Masons dressed as Indians.
    I've been actively investigating, learning about, and debating against the Mormon church for almost 20 years. I've read tons of volumes of newspapers, books, web articles, and anything else I could get my hands on. I've never seen any report say that the mob had people dressed as Indians.

    OK. Do this, provided testimony that allegation is patently false.
    That's stupid. It'd be just as impossible to prove that there were dozens of George Washington cosplayers in the mob. The fact remains that not one single report from the time, whether Mormon or otherwise, claimed the mob had dressed up Indians in it.


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  3. #22
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Why, exactly, would it be necessary for the Masons to dress as Indians? The Masons were only part of the overall mob, they had superiority in numbers, and the guards appeared to be complicit in the attack.

    It just makes no sense at all that the Masons would need to "dress as Indians".

    Additionally, if Smith did, indeed, issue the Mason Distress Signal, he would have had to know it was Masons in the crowd, not war-painted Indians.

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  4. #23
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Probably from mistaking earlier reports of mobs dressing as actual Indians and raiding the town of Far West. See A Young Folks' History of the Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S. By Nephi Anderson, p. 80
    Then why the face paint of mud and gunpowder? What was their purpose in that?



    I've been actively investigating, learning about, and debating against the Mormon church for almost 20 years. I've read tons of volumes of newspapers, books, web articles, and anything else I could get my hands on. I've never seen any report say that the mob had people dressed as Indians.
    So. That does not change what I had understood to be the case.

    Do you know why the mob killed Joseph Smith? What was his crime they for which they needed to kill him? Do you know who Captain Morgan was and why he was killed?


    That's stupid. It'd be just as impossible to prove that there were dozens of George Washington cosplayers in the mob. The fact remains that not one single report from the time, whether Mormon or otherwise, claimed the mob had dressed up Indians in it.
    Calling it just stupid does not make that report you do not like, not true.

    It is very simple, we need ask why is the false report even being made? I was lead to believe that report was true. That is why I mentioned it. I thought it would be of interest. I guess I was wrong in thinking so.
    Last edited by 37818; 01-03-2016 at 07:25 PM.
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  5. #24
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Why, exactly, would it be necessary for the Masons to dress as Indians? The Masons were only part of the overall mob, they had superiority in numbers, and the guards appeared to be complicit in the attack.

    It just makes no sense at all that the Masons would need to "dress as Indians".

    Additionally, if Smith did, indeed, issue the Mason Distress Signal, he would have had to know it was Masons in the crowd, not war-painted Indians.
    Why were they wearing "war-paint," mud and gunpowder on their faces? What was the purpose of that?
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

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  6. #25
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Doing reading on the internet . . . Joseph Smith was killed for his polygamy. The mob wearing "war paint" was for no other reason than to hide individual identities. Joseph's alleged attempt to call fellow Masons for help was cut short in mid sentence when he was shot. A reported eye witness sketch of the event drew men in common attire, not dressed as Indians.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

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  7. #26
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Why were they wearing "war-paint," mud and gunpowder on their faces? What was the purpose of that?
    I don't think they were. I think the reports of that were in error.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    It is very simple, we need ask why is the false report even being made? I was lead to believe that report was true. That is why I mentioned it. I thought it would be of interest. I guess I was wrong in thinking so.
    I think if it actually happened that way, it would be more prominent in reports of the time. I can't say absolutely that there were not persons there with blackened faces, but even that doesn't imply "dressed like Indians".

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  9. #28
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    The writer I read most likely ment by "dressed as Indian" only referred to the use of the mud and wet gunpowder to blacken their faces which that writer did not mention. In light of all that I have now read on this, that makes sense. Considering what was reported by eyewitnesses as to how the mob was dressed.imgfHUZDICarthageJail1844.jpg
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    Last edited by 37818; 01-04-2016 at 07:15 AM.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  10. #29
    tWebber Janice's Avatar
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    I think the people dressed as Indians might have been Mormons at Mountain Meadows.

  11. #30
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    the "Indians" is referring to the Mountain Meadows Massacre where Mormons dressed up like Indians and killed travelers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre
    The Mountain Meadows massacre was a series of attacks on the Baker–Fancher emigrant wagon train, at Mountain Meadows in southern Utah. The attacks began on September 7 and culminated on September 11, 1857, resulting in the mass slaughter of the emigrant party by members of the Utah Territorial Militia from the Iron County district, together with some Paiute Native Americans. The militia, officially called the Nauvoo Legion, was composed of southern Utah's Mormon settlers (members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or the LDS Church). Intending to leave no witnesses and thus prevent reprisals, the perpetrators killed all the adults and older children—about 120 men, women, and children in total. Seventeen children, all younger than seven, were spared.

    The wagon train, mostly families from Arkansas, was bound for California on a route that passed through the Utah Territory, during a conflict later known as the Utah War. After arriving in Salt Lake City, the Baker–Fancher party made their way south, eventually stopping to rest at Mountain Meadows. While the emigrants were camped at the meadow, nearby militia leaders, including Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee, joined forces to organize an attack on the wagon train.

    Intending to give the appearance of Native American aggression, the militia's plan was to arm some Southern Paiute Native Americans and persuade them to join with a larger party of their own militiamen—disguised as Native Americans—in an attack. During the militia's first assault on the wagon train the emigrants fought back, and a five-day siege ensued. Eventually fear spread among the militia's leaders that some emigrants had caught sight of white men and had likely discovered the identity of their attackers. As a result militia commander William H. Dame ordered his forces to kill the emigrants.

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